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People voting to democratically control there workplace is tyranny?
I think whogo mistakes 'capital' with capitalist.
A capitalist is a person who has a right to someone else labor and uses their excess power to influence others. Capital are the tools used for production.
The workers having no control over the means of production leave the power in the hand of an exterior source. That authority over the workers can only mean slavery.
When you say there are other options you must take in two points.
a.) What if a worker wants to work at that production center, who has the right to stop them. If a man wants to produce they have the right to produce with all resources at their disposal.
b.) Competition will eventually be monopolized under one source as the capitalism places profit above all else and the only way to maximize profits is to maximize control over the means of production.
Your making your worker sound like a spoiled brat, who must get what they want.
You still haven't explained why being paid by a business owner for work is slavery -why is the KFC worker, the same as the salt mine slave?
What happens to subversives under Marxism? , like the capitalist who wants to sell cheese sandwiches from a roadside stall, and the worker who wants to work for them -are they criminals who need to be " re-educated"
Your making your worker sound like a spoiled brat, who must get what they want.
You still haven't explained why being paid by a business owner for work is slavery -why is the KFC worker, the same as the salt mine slave?
What happens to subversives under Marxism? , like the capitalist who wants to sell cheese sandwiches from a roadside stall, and the worker who wants to work for them -are they criminals who need to be " re-educated"
Capitalism punishes everyone who doesn't bow to the absolute power of ownership. If someone owns a MoP you must work for them or starve.
1. If you can produce and want to, you should be able to. No abstract 'owner' has any rights to deny the working class the freedom of work. For someone so supposedly pro-autonomy you support radical oppression of those who want to produce on their own grounds.
2. If you are FORCED to work under someone, then that is slavery. If you want to do whatever someone tells you and give them whatever they want that is your choice, but if you want to work and in order to do so have to give up your input to the 'owner' of the MoP, that is slavery.
3. If you work at a sandwich stand the two of you have equal ownership of that stand. If one of the partners wants to be submissive to the other, that is their right, but you can't create an environment where the power is inherently in the hands of the owner and any resistance to them and there control over you is seen as an act of aggression.
You brought up emotions as a necessary component of life and I said it is something individuals must figure out without production capacities.
You brought up drugs and I said (emotional stimuli affected via bodily intake) that drugs aren't responsible for building emotional fullfillment in ones life.
And somewhere from that you got A Brave New World.
We already have too many problems in this thread. Let's look at your other post which I'll get to now.
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
1. That wouldn't fix your problem; Excess wealth, regardless of currency, can be produced via great production abilities.
That's not excess wealth when the consumer has other ways to maximize his own personal abilities or get into another field of production/service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324
Once an oil field (just an example) is for sale and can be rightful bought under the guise of private ownership the production capacity of that company increases.
If company X only owns one oil field and company Y owns two then the latter will naturally obtain an excess amount of wealth compared to the former. Being as everything is for sale and the purpose of capitalism is increased profits company Y will buy up the oil field of company X expanding their production deficit.
Once the means of production are controlled by one source the economy (of that sector and for that region) will be monopolized and anyone from that point on who would like to work in oil production must go through the one authority of that area.
You're being over simplistic and/or intellectually dishonest. Or you just don't know any better.
Freedom of movement. Freedom of association. Freedom of currency. Freedom of buying and selling your labor.
All of these things completely rule out monopolies acting badly. In fact, the only way a monopoly can exist under real capitalism is if they are so good and so fair to the overwhelming majority of people nobody chooses to use their labor to compete with it. Or they are simply making something nobody wants for s-hits and giggles which would be odd but whatever floats your boat.
Don't get me wrong: scarcity is real. It's just that you don't understand how force initiation, at any point in the socialization of humans, creates artificial scarcity.
Nobody knows the true price of anything right now. That's because we don't have freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom of currency, and freedom of buying and selling our labor. You've never seen a legit supply and demand for a product/service in your life. Regulation ends that immediately.
Now, getting back to scarcity...legit scarcity. If it should come to pass that one person is able to attain the last of a resources in its current form from anywhere on the globe that would indeed count as legit scarcity.
1. Very unlikely to happen.
2. Your problem, like all the other statists, is with the paradigm of existence/nature.
If supply is down to one due to consumption and that lone person refuses to sell the rest will simply have to do without. The last tree is the last tree my friend. This is probably why the earth is 4.5 billion years old, there have been 5 billion species of life to exist, and over 99% of those species have gone extinct.
*shrug* You'll have to take that up with Mother Nature, god, buddha, your sacred rock, the God of dandelions, etc.
Natural scarcity is simply part of life. You are part of life...not above it. You are the means...not the ends.
A capitalist is a person who has a right to someone else labor and uses their excess power to influence others. Capital are the tools used for production.
Influence others?
What does that mean? You're back to prescribing feelings for individuals again King Winterfall.
Capitalism punishes everyone who doesn't bow to the absolute power of ownership. If someone owns a MoP you must work for them or starve.
You mustn't live in NZ then, plenty of non working folks here that don't starve
Quote:
1. If you can produce and want to, you should be able to. No abstract 'owner' has any rights to deny the working class the freedom of work. For someone so supposedly pro-autonomy you support radical oppression of those who want to produce on their own grounds.
People can produce what they want, just don't interfere with the consensual agreements of others
Quote:
2. If you are FORCED to work under someone, then that is slavery. If you want to do whatever someone tells you and give them whatever they want that is your choice, but if you want to work and in order to do so have to give up your input to the 'owner' of the MoP, that is slavery.
So the KFC worker is forced?
Quote:
3. If you work at a sandwich stand the two of you have equal ownership of that stand. If one of the partners wants to be submissive to the other, that is their right, but you can't create an environment where the power is inherently in the hands of the owner and any resistance to them and there control over you is seen as an act of aggression.
This is really where the sickness of Marxism reveals itself - no wonder all the supposed good intentions have turned into a horror show, as any deviation from Marxist thought is portrayed as negative behavior to be corrected.
3. If you work at a sandwich stand the two of you have equal ownership of that stand. If one of the partners wants to be submissive to the other, that is their right, but you can't create an environment where the power is inherently in the hands of the owner and any resistance to them and there control over you is seen as an act of aggression.
Who regulates this? We send someone down from the Politburo to make sure each person is making the same number of sandwiches?
Sweet Jesus this is unfeasible not to mention creepy as hell.
He was right too. His theories on big government control leading to oppressive private industry were correct (as seen in Nazi Germany).
His prediction of globalization was correct. He gave the working class and leftist a path forward. Rather than bowing his head to the elite he offered a power up structure where no one had the right to another persons labor.
He inspired real socialists in Chiapas to give rights and power back to the indigenous population. He inspired MLK to fight for social and economic justice for all of the downtrodden in America.
His work brought forth workers cooperatives like Mondragon, Kantega, and dozens in the Midwest to life letting people work for themselves for the first time in history.
Some accuse Marxism of death but all those deaths would need to be multipled 10 fold to even begin to compare to what Capitalism has brought.
The USSR and the rest would have Made Marx roll over in his grave, he didn’t look towards authoritarianism but towards the Paris communes (which were not as reported in the American press). Feminism, racial equality, they all started with Marx.
In Catalonia the syndicalists established a Marxist society offering true freedom to its people and control over their own labor uniting millions voluntarily.
In the United States social security, Medicare, medicade, and all the public institutions that we have and the benefits (weekend work week) that come with them are of Marxian thought. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain
Building more than prosperity it built harmony. Taking from ancient cultures like Taoism to Zoroastrianism to Buddhism, Marx brought the power back into the hands of the individual and formed a world where masters are not needed to control the labor.
For Freedom, for egalitarianism, and for securing our Earth I salute you good sir. In this country there are still Many who want Capitalism and state authority to proceed all else, but these people are in the minority more and more.
Here, things are changing: This Rust-Belt Town.
Towns betrayed by both the state and the private industry are returning power into their own hands. RISE UP people, there is a new dawn for this country and for the world over. Money is not earned from owning stocks or businesses, it is earned from production, and the helping of one man to another.
To see the morning
Look above the horizon
See the oceans crashing far and wide
And never doubt that of what you see is but a reflection of the past
For the future, no matter how far, is on the horizon
In the 20s the Middle East gave rise to socialist leaders from Nasser, Ataturk, Reza Shah, Faisal of Iraq, etc. all who brought reform. None on the backs of free market fantasies brought forth by Austrian economist with the only care for power at the base of their thought.
But together we are united. All of us in our communities, in our families, or here in CD. If we have the will for freedom as Marx called for then we can do the impossible.
Both in peace and war people have struggled and yet one man has inspired the most downtrodden. May his 200th usher in an era of peace and harmony from east to west. ��
This has to be the most disgusting post of the year!
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