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This is an interesting idea for a thread, although I wish you would have worded it differently. As a Dem, I don't hate him because he's a "jerk" (a vague, weak word, don't you think?). I hate him because he's an ignorant, unqualified, mean, bigoted, predatory, self-aggrandising vulgarian.
Your poll would have been more interesting if you had tried to distinguish between shallow supporters who only "like" him for his personality, agree with his policies, or despise him generally but felt he might be better for the economy.
Look at Jimmy Carter. He is probably the best modern example of a good man being POTUS.
However, he was a terrible president.
FDR meanwhile was a real SOB, but a very effective President (although I disagree with his policies).
I didn't say the reserve would be true. I quite like Bush Jr as a human being but he was a terrible president. A good person can be a terrible president. However a bad person cannot be a good president.
How much of an SOB are we talking though? Dr. House was an effective doctor on the TV show but was an SOB but deep inside he cared about his patients so when I say good person I mean that they can be rough around the edges but deep inside they care about people other than themselves.
I did read a bit on FDR to see what you mean and if all that is true (I wasn't alive then so I can't really say), then no he's not as great as history made him out to be. He might have had some good policies but the overall picture would be bleak. You are essentially saying Hitler could have been a good president.
Last edited by Nickchick; 05-04-2018 at 05:42 PM..
That's one way to look at it, but none of these possibilities has actually happened yet. There's no way to know what the future will hold. Hillary didn't deserve the presidency. She was an empty suit, like many of the career politicians of both sides. Had she convinced Bernie to be her running mate and adopted his whole platform she would have won in a landslide. Gore did the same thing in 2000 when he refused to adopt even a single plank of Ralph Nader's 18 point platform. Nader said if Gore adopted just one plank of the 18 points he would pledge his support. Gore ignored him and lost Florida by Nader's votes. I don't think it really matters anyway. Trump hasn't done anything I can't live with as I stated before. Although I voted for Obama I was pretty disappointed by his performance on the war, on Guantanamo, on incarceration, on not removing marijuana from it's current federal classification, at least for medicinal purposes. That was unforgivable from a guy who smoked it. Obama was Bush light. And so far Trump is Obama light. These guys have way more in common with each other than with their supporters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
this is unfortunately bull. Lots is getting done, like the tax scam that will hurt the middle class, like the piece by piece weakening of the ACA which, while not universal health care is a damn sight better than what we had before, like DACA kids being perched on the precarious edge of deportation, like getting Gorsuch on the Supreme Court, and getting dozens of young white uber conservative men in district court judgeships all over the country. And if you liked Bernie and presumably progressive ideas, well, then you will think that the decisions handed down by these judges will suck, because I guarantee they will be anything but progressive.
But hey, as long as we got to squash down the woman who beat Bernie, who cares if a generation of civil rights and progressive progress in small but real steps gets lost in the process. So much better to not get anything at all and end up moving backwards if you can't get pie in the sky ideas with no actual plans behind them.
I didn't say the reserve would be true. I quite like Bush Jr as a human being but he was a terrible president. A good person can be a terrible president. However a bad person cannot be a good president.
How much of an SOB are we talking though? Dr. House was an effective doctor on the TV show but was an SOB but deep inside he cared about his patients so when I say good person I mean that they can be rough around the edges but deep inside they care about people other than themselves.
I did read a bit on FDR to see what you mean and if all that is true (I wasn't alive then so I can't really say), then no he's not as great as history made him out to be. He might have had some good policies but the overall picture would be bleak. You are essentially saying Hitler could have been a good president.
The US is not Germany. There are checks and balances in place that theoretically (hopefully) prevent someone from becoming Hitler. Also Hitler was evil, possibly insane. Is that different than being a "bad person"? What qualities make a "bad person"?
I don't disagree that optimally a "good person" would be POTUS. However I disagree that a "bad person cannot be a good President." Moral "goodness" and leadership qualities are not correlated.
In any case, "good" and "bad" are vague and relatively meaningless words.
Originally Posted by steven_h Trump is born, raised and is a successful RE developer in NYC. Is there really any need to ask why anyone thinks he is a jerk?
My two cents:
Everyone has different reasons for liking and/or disliking him. I like what he is trying to accomplish, hate that he keeps getting in his own way and giving ammunition to MSM and the tribe.
How I see his detractors:
In the case of the left it's simply that they lost and he clearly won. How could a billionaire reality star beat their Queen? This thread is a glaring example of how they refuse to accept this fact 16 months later and show no sign of stopping, ever.
R Presidents:
Reagan was hated for trickle down, GWB was really hated for starting wars, now Trump is extremely hated for everything, even as he has done some great world changing things. That he would still be hated by the progs even if he solved the Korean problem is beyond me.
There's a pattern with the Marxist left. They would rather see a Republican fail and will do their best to manufacture such failure than see him and the country succeed.
PS, I don't want a "nice" President. Eight years of "nice" got us nowhere!
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751
Democrats are as upset as the rest of America about the direction in which the country is headed, but as the dysfunctionally insane they keep voting for the same people who are doing all this damage and expecting a different result.
Your post has very good points.
I agree with you. The thing we all, as a collective society, have to understand are the forces we are dealing with.
You say "democrats are just as upset". YES! they are... the actual Democrats, the moderate blue bloods, the liberals with a conscience. See... no Liberal would have ever betrayed the middle class the way the progressive Marxist wing of the "Democratic Party" have.
They call themselves liberal democrats, but are they? Are they really?
Let's be honest here; Progressives (from either party) are no more for this Republic than my cats wanting to be friendly with mice.
They are Marxists with a newly minted nice sounding name. Wolves in sheepskins.
WE ALL (moderates) need to start differentiating between US and the extreme left Marxists and the extreme right authoritarians. We also need to understand that they live on division, rhetoric and vitriol.
WE, left and right need to start finding common ground. It will kill the cancer.
As long as people think liberals and progressives are Marxists, and a cancer, then the discussion is over. It's all peeing into the wind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h
Originally Posted by steven_h Trump is born, raised and is a successful RE developer in NYC. Is there really any need to ask why anyone thinks he is a jerk?
My two cents:
Everyone has different reasons for liking and/or disliking him. I like what he is trying to accomplish, hate that he keeps getting in his own way and giving ammunition to MSM and the tribe.
How I see his detractors:
In the case of the left it's simply that they lost and he clearly won. How could a billionaire reality star beat their Queen? This thread is a glaring example of how they refuse to accept this fact 16 months later and show no sign of stopping, ever.
R Presidents:
Reagan was hated for trickle down, GWB was really hated for starting wars, now Trump is extremely hated for everything, even as he has done some great world changing things. That he would still be hated by the progs even if he solved the Korean problem is beyond me.
There's a pattern with the Marxist left. They would rather see a Republican fail and will do their best to manufacture such failure than see him and the country succeed.
PS, I don't want a "nice" President. Eight years of "nice" got us nowhere!
I agree with you. The thing we all, as a collective society, have to understand are the forces we are dealing with.
You say "democrats are just as upset". YES! they are... the actual Democrats, the moderate blue bloods, the liberals with a conscience. See... no Liberal would have ever betrayed the middle class the way the progressive Marxist wing of the "Democratic Party" have.
They call themselves liberal democrats, but are they? Are they really?
Let's be honest here; Progressives (from either party) are no more for this Republic than my cats wanting to be friendly with mice.
They are Marxists with a newly minted nice sounding name. Wolves in sheepskins.
WE ALL (moderates) need to start differentiating between US and the extreme left Marxists and the extreme right authoritarians. We also need to understand that they live on division, rhetoric and vitriol.
WE, left and right need to start finding common ground. It will kill the cancer.
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