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Old 05-06-2018, 10:11 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusano View Post
Ridiculous.
How so? It's the exact same thing. That's why there are fetal homicide laws.

 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:23 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,594,609 times
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Interesting California Law Review article examining the unintended consequences of enacting fetal homicide laws which have the effect of legalizing the prioritization of the protection of the fetus over the rights of the mother:

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu...ornialawreview
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Midwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Interesting California Law Review article examining the unintended consequences of enacting fetal homicide laws which have the effect of legalizing the prioritization of the protection of the fetus over the rights of the mother:

https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu...ornialawreview
The article you posted kind of makes the "heartbeat" law seem cruel, doesn't it?

Quote:
This Article has shown how fetal protection efforts, while intending to
promote fetal health, impose onerous burdens on the most vulnerable members
of our society: pregnant women.
These burdens emerge during pregnancy in
some of the cruelest ways, invading their privacy, ignoring their confidence,
trampling their autonomy, and imposing physically abusive norms on their
bodies. Ultimately, such policies do very little to achieve states’ interests in
fetal protection.
Punitive FPLs simply do not work. They concentrate on the unborn at the
risk of ignoring those who are born. How do we resolve this? What policy
answers the purported concerns of the state, while affording pregnant women
dignity, citizenship, and equality?
https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu...ornialawreview
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:28 AM
 
1,323 posts, read 586,514 times
Reputation: 1063
Dupe.
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:29 AM
 
1,323 posts, read 586,514 times
Reputation: 1063
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How so? It's the exact same thing. That's why there are fetal homicide laws.
No it's not. The difference is consent. The language of the bills clarfies this.

Alaska - Alaska. Stat. § 11.41.150 et seq., Alaska Stat. § 11.81.250, Alaska Stat. § 12.55.035, and Alaska Stat. § 12.55.125 (2005) relate to offenses against unborn children. The law provides that a defendant convicted of murder in the second degree or murder of an unborn child shall be sentenced to a definite term of imprisonment of at least 10 years but no more than 99 years. The law does not apply to acts that cause the death of an unborn child if those acts were committed during a legal abortion to which the pregnant woman consented or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf consented, or for which such consent is implied by law. Alaska Stat. 11.81.900(b)(64) defines an unborn child as a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development.

Arkansas - Ark. Stat. Ann. § 5-1-102(13) defines "person," as used in § 5-10-101 through § 5-10-105, to include an unborn child at any stage of development. The law specifies that these provisions do not apply to an act that causes the death of an unborn child in utero if the act was committed during a legal abortion to which the woman consented, an act committed pursuant to a usual and customary standard of medical practice during testing or treatment, or an act committed in the course of medical research, experimental medicine or an act deemed necessary to save the life or preserve the health of the woman.
Ark. Stat. Ann. § 5-10-101 through § 5-10-105 define capital murder, murder in the first degree, murder in the second degree, manslaughter and negligent homicide.

Idaho- Idaho Code § 18-4001, § 18-4006 and § 18-4016 (2002) declare that murder includes the unlawful killing of a human embryo or fetus under certain conditions. The law provides that manslaughter includes the unlawful killing of a human embryo or fetus without malice. The law defines "embryo" or "fetus" as any human in utero. These laws do not apply to conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law, or to any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her embryo or fetus.

That is the distinguishing factor. An argument can be made that a woman should be not be able to consent to abortion, but according to polls most citizens believe a woman should have the right to an abortion during the first trimester unencumbered. The issue for many however is the nebulous area at the end of the second trimester when approaching viability - meaning the fetus can survive without a host.
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,594,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
The article you posted kind of makes the "heartbeat" law seem cruel, doesn't it?
The point is, the law review article clearly examines how fetal homicide laws have usurped women's rights in favor of their fetuses' rights. The only way to correct that is to abolish all fetal homicide laws. Anyone who wishes to kill a fetus may do so, not just the mother.
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:33 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,594,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kajo13 View Post
No it's not. The difference is consent.
Incorrect. Read the California Law Review article I posted. Women who have consented to their own behavior (smoking cigarettes, ignoring bed rest restrictions, etc.) have had their rights usurped due to medical professionals' and others' obligations to protect the fetus due to fetal homicide laws.
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The point is, the law review article clearly examines how fetal homicide laws have usurped women's rights in favor of their fetuses' rights. The only way to correct that is to abolish all fetal homicide laws. Anyone who wishes to kill a fetus may do so, not just the mother.
It is the mother's body.
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:51 AM
 
4,362 posts, read 4,212,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
Whether it's just one death or the death of both the mother and baby, people who want abortion banned will simply tell you it was all due to the will of God. They probably also see miscarriages as that way, too.
If the death of the mother is God's will, then why not an abortion? God is said to work in mysterious ways, so it is not inconceivable that His plan for a woman's life could include abortion.

And further, what is the damage to the baby's soul if it is aborted? Does it go to Hell? Limbo? Purgatory? Heaven? Or does the baby have no soul until it is born, which is what some religions teach?
 
Old 05-06-2018, 10:54 AM
 
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God told me to have an abortion.
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