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Old 05-07-2018, 05:19 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,292 posts, read 54,124,717 times
Reputation: 40596

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
For those people who favor abolishing property taxes, how would you propose paying for the services (schools, police/fire protection, roads & bridges, waste disposal, sewer/water infrastructure, etc.) that they pay for?:

Where Does the Money from Property Taxes Go? | Home Guides | SF Gate

I do agree that in some areas, such as $15K for a very modest home, which is the case in a very small portion of the country (i.e. parts of NY and a few other very high tax areas), they are out of hand.

What would you all propose to be the solution? And hopefully it isn't to do away with schools, because I don't think we need more uneducated people in our country. If the plan is to privatize all schools, that may work for middle-upper class income groups and higher, but what about people who are already poor who wouldn't be able to afford it. Do we really want that many more people who are poor and uneducated because they can't afford privatized tuition?

And if the proposal is privatizing everything, just think a bit about how fair private companies are with their rates.
Think about the cable or phone companies or insurance companies will offer a "teaser" rate but then jack the prices way up after a year or so.

I'm not disagreeing that the proportions in some areas are out of hand, but it sounds as if what's being proposed is to eliminate property taxes altogether. What's going to make up the difference to still be able to provide the services that people demand?

One of the most egregious examples I've ever seen: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-pro...n-drug-prices/
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,298 posts, read 2,337,616 times
Reputation: 1227
First, yes, it's obviously theft/robbery.

Second, legalized theft is still theft.

Third, it's a total fallacy (red herring) to claim that it's not theft because "well, how would things work without it?"

Fourth, it's also a fallacy to claim it's not theft because "you get stuff in return".
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:22 PM
 
34,264 posts, read 19,266,610 times
Reputation: 17249
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Fourth, it's also a fallacy to claim it's not theft because "you get stuff in return".
OMG....I bought a computer at Amazon, and they stole from me by taking my money!

If you do not like it do not participate in society-guess what, no one living on the streets without participating in our financial systems deals with taxation. Congratulations!
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,423 posts, read 15,155,420 times
Reputation: 14288
I hate to be the one defending taxes here, but at least with my property taxes, I know exactly where they are going. I know what percentage is going to MY schools. I know what percent is going to MY police department, fire department, etc, etc. It is all right there on the municipality website for everyone to see. Heck, I even can look up how much each individual teacher is being paid, by name.

And Like I said in an earlier post, I have some degree of control over how much I am paying. I dont have to earn less just to pay less. All I have to do is buy a smaller home. It is like sales tax. If I want to pay less, I just have to spend less.
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,298 posts, read 2,337,616 times
Reputation: 1227
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
OMG....I bought a computer at Amazon, and they stole from me by taking my money!

If you do not like it do not participate in society-guess what, no one living on the streets without participating in our financial systems deals with taxation. Congratulations!
You going to Amazon and ordering a computer is not the same as Amazon sending you a computer and charging you for it. Is that not obvious?
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,262,821 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Maybe should you vote then, can't complain if you don't do anything about it.
I don't like enabling bad behavior.
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:58 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,291,592 times
Reputation: 22904
Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
I mean, I don't think the Founders would like the idea of having to pay the government a sum of money, in some places as high as $15K/year, for the privilege of owning their own house, and that if they didn't pay, the government could take their paycheck or even the house itself.
The Founders were not opposed to paying taxes; they were opposed to paying taxes to a government in which the colonists did not have adequate representation. They were perfectly willing to impose taxes when it suited the nascent nation's interests. The first tax passed by the United States government was an estate tax under President John Adams in 1797. It lasted until 1802 when it was repealed only to be re-enacted sixty years later to fund the Civil War. The estate tax cycled between enactment and repeal until 1916 with the passage of the Revenue Act that has remained in effect through today.

I suspect many of you sat through U.S. History classes in high school. Do any of you remember hearing about Shay's Rebellion or the Fries Rebellion? They were about taxes. The United States has a long history of conflict between those who govern and those who are governed over how to fund projects designed for the common good, from the time of the Founders all the way through to today. To question whether or not the Founders would support property taxes is the height of ignorance. They not only would, they did!

Last edited by randomparent; 05-07-2018 at 06:39 PM..
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:59 PM
 
18,073 posts, read 18,722,189 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
I hate to be the one defending taxes here, but at least with my property taxes, I know exactly where they are going. I know what percentage is going to MY schools. I know what percent is going to MY police department, fire department, etc, etc. It is all right there on the municipality website for everyone to see. Heck, I even can look up how much each individual teacher is being paid, by name.

And Like I said in an earlier post, I have some degree of control over how much I am paying. I dont have to earn less just to pay less. All I have to do is buy a smaller home. It is like sales tax. If I want to pay less, I just have to spend less.
But your income tax is dependent on your ability to pay, you are not being charged an income tax just because, it is based off of how much you make. Your home has no such thing, the taxes on it have nothing to do with the ability to pay, which is different than every tax out there. Even better, the result from not paying will ultimately be homelessness as the gov seizes the property.

As I mentioned, the property tax can be made better by not linking it to home value (which is absurd), factor use of services (more kids in school, pay more taxes), and means to pay (no income, no pay, scaled to income and ability, allows people top lose income without worrying about losing their home to the government).
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,262,821 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
You going to Amazon and ordering a computer is not the same as Amazon sending you a computer and charging you for it. Is that not obvious?
Understanding legitimate consent is not their strong suit.

Though I don't recall the day I'm guessing exiting a vagina was a helluva ride. Still, I'm pretty sure I didn't agree to 2% city tax on my future income after the doctor slapped my rear.

Just an educated guess. Though I'm a product of public schools so I suppose anything is possible at this point and I'm off my rocker on this one.
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:06 PM
 
2,924 posts, read 1,579,010 times
Reputation: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
You going to Amazon and ordering a computer is not the same as Amazon sending you a computer and charging you for it. Is that not obvious?
No, property taxes are like Amazon sending you a computer and then charging you for it whether it works for your or not and then refusing to issue a refund if you don't like it and threatening to jail you if you try and send it back and get your money back. Now, you may be able to buy a better computer but you're still suck paying for the Amazon one too.

That's pretty much our public education system and the property taxes that pay for it.
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