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Old 05-08-2018, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,633 posts, read 18,222,068 times
Reputation: 34509

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When I look at many of the anti-freedom of speech laws in place throughout much of Europe, I cringe and am ever thankful that I live in these United States of America, where even the most offensive speech is protected.

In Germany, an 89 year old grandmother was sentenced to prison time for being a vocal Holocaust denier.

Quote:
Authorities in western Germany arrested serial Holocaust denier Ursula Haverbeck on Monday after the 89-year-old failed to show up at prison last week to start her sentence.

"After the convict failed to report to the relevant penal institution within the deadline, prosecutors in Verden on May 4, 2018 issued an order to execute the sentence and have charged police with its implementation," prosecutors said. Police found Haverbeck at her home on Monday and transferred her to prison to begin her two-year term.

Haverbeck was sentenced for incitement by denying the mass murder of millions of Jews during the Nazi era in Germany.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ail/589613002/

With such repressive speech laws, it was no surprise to me that many American leftists claimed they would move to Europe if/when Donald Trump won the presidency.

For the record, I believe that the woman is an antisemitic fool, who is spewing hatred against Jews with her Holocaust denial. Still, even racists/sexists/homophobes/antisemites/etc. deserve protection under the law for mere speech.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:32 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
21,123 posts, read 19,707,707 times
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Seems like a waste of a prison cell. What harm can this women do other than make herself look like a fool? Why not lock up some of the Muslim immigrants who would like a “final solution” for Israel?
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:38 PM
 
7,736 posts, read 4,987,721 times
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I was in Germany for a few weeks right after the migrant crisis... none of them wanted to talk about it.. The ones that did said it was their duty to help. I barely got one guy in bavaria to talk about it. He was complaining because he said the Germany government was paying the migrants 1200-1400 euros a month in welfare and not giving them work permits......Glad I visited when I did though. It was still fun. Im actually going to London in 3 weeks. Planning on wiping my cookies lol, dont want them arresting me for watching the wrong video on youtube or something
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
7,184 posts, read 4,766,211 times
Reputation: 4869
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
When I look at many of the anti-freedom of speech laws in place throughout much of Europe, I cringe and am ever thankful that I live in these United States of America, where even the most offensive speech is protected.

In Germany, an 89 year old grandmother was sentenced to prison time for being a vocal Holocaust denier.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ail/589613002/

With such repressive speech laws, it was no surprise to me that many American leftists claimed they would move to Europe if/when Donald Trump won the presidency.

For the record, I believe that the woman is an antisemitic fool, who is spewing hatred against Jews with her Holocaust denial. Still, even racists/sexists/homophobes/antisemites/etc. deserve protection under the law for mere speech.
In Germany you cannot deny the Holocaust took place. Period. That’s the law over there and it has been like that for a long time. The Germans don’t want another Adolf Hitler.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,813,426 times
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Do some research into EU laws... they've made themselves the bureaucracy from hell where virtually every aspect of life is controlled and regulated. There are even laws dictating how much suction your home vacum cleaner can have.

Even the facists of old Europe would have been like: "geez guys, you might be taking this a little too far"
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,758,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Seems like a waste of a prison cell. What harm can this women do other than make herself look like a fool?
Germany makes her look like a martyr, and all Holocaust education efforts look Orwellian.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,633 posts, read 18,222,068 times
Reputation: 34509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Seems like a waste of a prison cell. What harm can this women do other than make herself look like a fool? Why not lock up some of the Muslim immigrants who would like a “final solution” for Israel?
While I can't independently verify, Pat Condell of YouTube has called out a double standard in how these anti-speech laws are enforced in the UK, where antisemitic speech from Islamists is often tolerated.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,633 posts, read 18,222,068 times
Reputation: 34509
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
In Germany you cannot deny the Holocaust took place. Period. That’s the law over there and it has been like that for a long time. The Germans don’t want another Adolf Hitler.
Laws criminalizing speech are not needed to prevent creating another Adolf Hitler. If anything, repressive laws create instability, anger, and resentment as people get fed up. The best weapon against hate speech is more speech. We should not be afraid of speech.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,633 posts, read 18,222,068 times
Reputation: 34509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Do some research into EU laws... they've made themselves the bureaucracy from hell where virtually every aspect of life is controlled and regulated. There are even laws dictating how much suction your home vacum cleaner can have.

Even the facists of old Europe would have been like: "geez guys, you might be taking this a little too far"
Thankfully, the UK woke up and is about to exit that monstrosity.
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Japan
15,292 posts, read 7,758,205 times
Reputation: 10006
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post
The Germans don’t want another Adolf Hitler.
Then why are they providing martyrs to rally behind?
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