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Old 05-11-2018, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,301 posts, read 26,217,746 times
Reputation: 15646

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The military inquiry into the 4 soldiers killed back in October in Niger concluded, soldiers and low level officers were unprepared. Sounds like the French Mirage jets saved them from having more casualties.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — A Defense Department investigation of a Special Forces mission in Niger last fall found widespread problems across all levels of the military counterterrorism operation, but focused in particular on the actions of junior officers leading up to an ambush that killed four American soldiers.
The investigation, released Thursday, found that the 11-member team had not undergone crucial training as a unit before it deployed to Niger because of “personnel turnover” and had not rehearsed its mission before leaving its base. It said the two junior officers had “mischaracterized” the mission in a required planning document filed before the team, which included Green Berets, departed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/10/w...stigation.html
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:40 AM
 
5,544 posts, read 8,317,781 times
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I would like to know whicnh ones were the Green Berets and what their roles were. It just sounds like this whole thing is so unlike Green Beret mode as I remember it being from my days in Army operations business.

I cannot discount that a couple of Green Beret were told at the last minute to get on the vehicle and accompany the others. It just smells rotten to me.

And the junior officers reported one mission to HQ but did another? WOW
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Self explanatory
12,601 posts, read 7,229,051 times
Reputation: 16799
Will the GOP start a 4 year long investigation?
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,170,143 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The military inquiry into the 4 soldiers killed back in October in Niger concluded, soldiers and low level officers were unprepared. Sounds like the French Mirage jets saved them from having more casualties.


The investigation, released Thursday, found that the 11-member team had not undergone crucial training as a unit before it deployed to Niger because of “personnel turnover” and had not rehearsed its mission before leaving its base. It said the two junior officers had “mischaracterized” the mission in a required planning document filed before the team, which included Green Berets, departed.

Bunch of red flags there.


Special Forces training is not unit based, rather it is highly individualized. Each member of a Special Forces team has a particular expertise in some area (although they may overlap with another) and performs a particular task on the team related to his expertise. It is desirable, but not necessary, for Special Forces teams to train as a unit.


The reaction to any ambush by any US military unit is based on text-book standard procedures. Those standard procedures were developed by a combination of "trial and error" and actual combat experience stemming from WW II through the present. Special Forces are trained in ambush/counter-ambush techniques more so than any other military unit, and know what needs to be done.


It is, of course, within the realm of possibility that you are simply out-gunned in a well-laid ambush, and naturally, that will result in tragic consequences.


While published reports and accounts of the incident by the Media and the Military constantly claim this was an ambush, I see no such evidence of an ambush.


What I'm seeing is a hasty meeting engagement by a superior force.


In a simple ambush, you lie in wait in concealed positions along a route you reasonably believe threat forces will travel. When the bulk of the threat forces are in the kill-zone, you initiate the ambush, and in a more complex ambush, you might have a unit break cover and seal off the escape route for threat forces, typically called an "L-shaped Ambush."


That's not what happened here. Nearly every account states threat forces moved toward them from the front and initiated contact. That is not an ambush.


Regardless, it is unmistakably clear that someone knew the Special Forces team was out there, and knew where they were headed, and actively sought them out to engage them.


The only possible alternative to that scenario, is a roving band of militia "just happened" to be in the area, ran across the Special Forces team and decided to engage them, which is clearly a hasty meeting engagement and not an ambush.


The claim that they had not rehearsed the mission is complete bull-****. They were not ambushed at the mission site, rather the mission was over and they were returning to their base camp when the ambush occurred.


Again, that unmistakably points to the fact that someone knew their movements, unless you're willing to accept the possibility of a roving band of militia.



The claim that "junior officers" mis-characterized the mission is also a Red Herring.


The actual mission had long been completed at the time the incident took place.



Most accounts state it took 20 minutes for the Mirage ground-attack aircraft to arrive. Assuming it was cruising at 650 knots, it came from over 200 miles away.



That suggests the Special Forces team had no air support, which begs the question, "Why didn't they?"


Did the "junior officers" ask for air support, but were denied? Did they not ask for air support? Where they ordered to "mischaracterize" the mission in order to avoid requirements for having air support?


What exactly was their mission? We've yet to get a clear concise answer on that.


It's clear the US government was involved in something it doesn't really want the American people (or anyone else) to know; the mission was completed, whether successful or not; and that someone knew the team was there and where they were headed, and thus able to hunt them down and engage them, and that could only happen if someone had intelligence on the team's mission and movements, and the US is not prepared to admit that, for whatever reason.
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Eastern NC
20,868 posts, read 23,558,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Town FFX View Post
Will the GOP start a 4 year long investigation?
Of course not. Just like the failed raid in Yemen in 2017 that got a soldier and dozens of civilians killed.
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,120,999 times
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Of course no one has brought up the question of why U.S. troops were in Niger to begin with. I don't live in Niger, have no plans to live in Niger, and couldn't give a damn about what happens in Niger. It's yet another waste of taxpayer money used for military adventurism.

For some reason the U.S. government thinks my freedoms are in Africa and the Middle East.
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:42 PM
 
37,315 posts, read 59,878,910 times
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Because Chad apparently wants us there...
Is one theory I read--
Don't know how accurate that is

But I agree the idea that THIS document is the end-all/be-all that analyzes how that team was massacred is just as bogus as the one that came out to cover up the friendly-fire death of Pat Tillman early in the Afghan War

There is definitely more to know--and someone pretty high up must be actively involved in this coverup or in organizing the CF on the ground for this level of opacity...

They were set up by someone(s) in the last town they stopped at--delayed to arrange the ambush...
But why they were there in the first place is the question
Either they were totally incompetent and that needs to be laid out for all to see and learn from or someone else ---maybe a CIA or DoD analyst on the ground wanted them to do more
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,120,999 times
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U.S. tax theft victims are currently on the hook for a $110 million base in Niger which will cost $15 million a year to run.

Not to mention this:

Quote:
The Costs of War Project at the Watson Institute of International and Public Affairs at Brown University calculates that "through 2017, the US federal government has spent or been obligated to spend $4.8 trillion on the post-9/11 wars, including medical and disability payments to veterans over the next 40 years."

"Unless the US changes the way it manages that debt," those researchers note, "future interest will exceed $8 trillion by the 2050s."
U.S. Military Will Cost About $6 Trillion* Over Next Decade, Says CBO - Hit & Run : Reason.com

As if $22 trillion in debt wasn't enough...
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,120,999 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Because Chad apparently wants us there...
Is one theory I read--
Don't know how accurate that is
I don't give a frick about Chad, either. Let me know when the government of Chad pays my bills.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
I guess we'll just have to increase defense spending. Any problem can be solved if you throw enough money at it.

Government schools taught me that.

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