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Old 05-14-2018, 03:49 PM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,285,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Expat View Post
There's no doubting that the enemies of Trump in the USA and Europe want to see him fail. Europeans leaders will have to make a calculation about how much they want to antagonize the most powerful man in the world currently. While I want to continue trade openly with the Europeans, I think it's high time to jettison NATO and troops in Europe.
why are you so insecure about any of this ?, europe does what america tells it to do ! , so what if the leaders of france and germany speak of opposing the tearing up of the iranian deal , its not like they can do a damn thing about it
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:56 PM
 
Location: IL
1,874 posts, read 817,717 times
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i would love to get europe off the teat. the problem is they are such pansies and we may have to save them again.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:57 PM
 
46,944 posts, read 25,972,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
so what if the leaders of france and germany speak of opposing the tearing up of the iranian deal , its not like they can do a damn thing about it
You - do know who are signatories to that deal, right? P5 +1, look it up.
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:05 PM
 
7,855 posts, read 10,285,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
You - do know who are signatories to that deal, right? P5 +1, look it up.
since when does the usa care what european nations think or do , the usa can veto any UN sanction etc which germany or france etc might support

at the end of the day no major international agreement can have any power or standing without american backing
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Old 05-14-2018, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,831,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
since when does the usa care what european nations think or do , the usa can veto any UN sanction etc which germany or france etc might support

at the end of the day no major international agreement can have any power or standing without american backing

Tell that to all the countries who are moving ahead on climate change and the environment, without us being on board. They are learning we are going back to the dark ages, and they are moving ahead into the future.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,146 posts, read 13,434,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Tell that to all the countries who are moving ahead on climate change and the environment, without us being on board. They are learning we are going back to the dark ages, and they are moving ahead into the future.


The US doesn't ratify or adhere to any international law and opts out of lots of agreements.

The whole secondary sanction thing is not going to work, with China, Russia and India all still looking to continue normal trading, and the Europeans looking to stick with the original deal.

Trump and Bolton think they can bully the whole world and that no other opinion matters, however the world has moved on, and other nations have become far more powerful in terms of trade, manufacturing and technology.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:36 AM
 
51,649 posts, read 25,796,708 times
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The idea that an article in the NYTs is "stirring up strife" with Europe is ridiculous nonsense.

While the EU has a GDP roughly equivalent to the U.S., Trump treats Europe like a doormat, questioning the value of NATO, ridiculing the EU, dismissing their concerns on policy matters.

Trump behaves as if without U.S. involvement international agreements will fall apart. Alas, this has proven to be an inaccurate assessment.

As Trump tears up international agreements, threatens sanctions, and tariffs, other nations pick up the slack in world leadership and respond in ways that best support their national interest.

An article in the NYTs pointing out what could happen as a result is "stirring up strife?"

Is this a joke?
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,831,265 times
Reputation: 41863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post


The US doesn't ratify or adhere to any international law and opts out of lots of agreements.

The whole secondary sanction thing is not going to work, with China, Russia and India all still looking to continue normal trading, and the Europeans looking to stick with the original deal.

Trump and Bolton think they can bully the whole world and that no other opinion matters, however the world has moved on, and other nations have become far more powerful in terms of trade, manufacturing and technology.
China is one of those countries who is preparing to take our place at the head of the table. They are gearing up in areas like the environment, solar energy, and other technologies to become a very big player in the world market.

We have given them the perfect opportunity to surge ahead and gain the respect of all the countries we "no longer need". The last thing America needs is for the world to move away from us and start forming alliances that exclude us..........and that is precisely what Donald Trump, and his uneducated view of the world, is causing.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:10 AM
 
51,649 posts, read 25,796,708 times
Reputation: 37884
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
China is one of those countries who is preparing to take our place at the head of the table. They are gearing up in areas like the environment, solar energy, and other technologies to become a very big player in the world market.

We have given them the perfect opportunity to surge ahead and gain the respect of all the countries we "no longer need". The last thing America needs is for the world to move away from us and start forming alliances that exclude us..........and that is precisely what Donald Trump, and his uneducated view of the world, is causing.
Yep.

China is stockpiling gold to back its currency and is already making oil deals in their own currency rather than petrodollars.

While Trump was busy badmouthing Mexico, China was busy making trade deals them. For a time last year, it seemed like about one deal a week was popping up in the papers.

Now Trump is all abut the U.S. backing the Chinese phone manufacturer ZTE.

Got to wonder what Trump got for that.

And how that's gonna work out for the rest of us.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:20 AM
Status: "81 Years, NOT 91 Felonies" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,597,197 times
Reputation: 5696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Who cares what the girly leaders of Europe and Obama followers think.
Sexism aside, you have zero clue about what leadership if all about.

Leadership is not about having a pushy, brazen, bigoted, bull-in-the-china-shop persona. It's about inspiring people to work toward a better society - meaning one that's more fair, efficient, and that uplifts the dignity of the less fortunate. More specifically, that means enacting policies and using their leadership status to empower the powerless (easily accessible education, creating policies that enable the educated and skilled to get the jobs they are qualified for, paying them a wage that motivates them to work, etc). Accomplishing that almost always requires changing the very ways we think about what government ought and ought not to do.

Plus in our mass-media-oriented times, leadership also means speak out against unjust cultural attitudes that, completely aside from government policy, perpetuate unequal treatment of others - the latter does have real effects on the well-being of those others. Not only has Trump failed to do this, his rhetoric creates an atmosphere in which injustice, bigotry, and incivility (it's parent) can flourish in the first place.

If I ever become even half-way like Donald J. Trump, I hope my brothers and especially their kids will have the good sense to cut me out of their life. He is in no way fit to be in even the lowest levels of leadership. Even if not incarcerated, he still belongs only in places where his acts and expressions have no consequences of the lives of others. And that is why I have more respect for "girly men" than I do a crude and crass pseudo-leader like Trump and people that think like him.
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