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Old 05-15-2018, 04:39 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,115,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
I just see this as so completely pointless, all the embassies for the other countries will remain in Tel Aviv. It was just to make a point but this will not help the peace process which was anemic at best.
Nobody that was anybody even attended.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:55 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That is kind of absurd in the case of Israel as it keeps parts of other countries occupied, which violates international law. Not even in a war is it allowed to extend one's territory. Why would people recognize the borders of a country that doesn't recognize the borders of other countries?

Just today there was news on the new bridge connecting Crimea to Russia. I don't get why the West made such a fuss about that annexation when it looks away in Israel...
Russia is over 17 million sq. km. Israel is only 20k. There is a huge difference in the size of those countries. Obviously, its also political in nature, but the huge gap is beyond noticeable. Israel only annexed those territories so that it could prevent further attacks. The Golan Heights are a strategic point that was used by Syria to shell Israel. Until they sign a treaty with them, they are not getting it back.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,229 posts, read 26,172,300 times
Reputation: 15619
So now that Trump got the tough part done put a plaque on the wall in Jerusalem, the peace deal he is putting together should be easy.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:04 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Russia is over 17 million sq. km. Israel is only 20k. There is a huge difference in the size of those countries. Obviously, its also political in nature, but the huge gap is beyond noticeable. Israel only annexed those territories so that it could prevent further attacks. The Golan Heights are a strategic point that was used by Syria to shell Israel. Until they sign a treaty with them, they are not getting it back.
Size plays no role, the international laws on that are the same for everyone.

Also, if it is a strategic place (which makes no sense as modern weapons don't care about such topography, it only comes in handy when throwing stones ), why steal Syria's oil there?
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:04 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
I wish Americans would just stop and think where all this is going.

You have China backing Russia in Syria and also backing the current Iranian Agreement along with Europe, and you have the US backing Israel and even provoking the Arabs and Muslim world by moving an Embassy for no real reason or for any gain whatsoever.

Trump supports seem to think he has secured peace in North Korea, when in actual fact Kim Jong-un and North Korea changed their stance after a trip to China.

So whilst the US tries to bully the few allies it has, the real shots in the region are increasingly being called by Russia and China who know have the support of much of the Arab and Muslim world.

You need to think carefully about what you do in this region and Trump and warmongerer Bolton are not the best people when it comes to diplomacy.
The Spectator has praised Trump's decision and reckons that other countries should follow suit. In reality, this shouldn't be a big deal at all. Israel declared Jerusalem as its capital and Trump is following through with it. Palestinians and Arabs are making it out to be more than it needs to. If they recognize Israel they will gain their own country and can claim East Jerusalem as their capital. Jerusalem, will thus be the capital of two different countries, just like Nicosia in Cyprus is (even though the Turkish part isn't recognized).

I'm no fan of Trump, but out of all of his actions, this is one that isn't worthy of scorn.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:26 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Size plays no role, the international laws on that are the same for everyone.

Also, if it is a strategic place (which makes no sense as modern weapons don't care about such topography, it only comes in handy when throwing stones ), why steal Syria's oil there?
Maybe not in international lay, but when you have giant countries like the Russia, the US, Canada, Australia or Brazil who have large underpopulated areas, that were also acquired through expansion, it becomes ridiculous to criticize Israel on that front, especially given that the land grab only happened following an invasion.

The Arab world is already ridiculously large as well, extending all the way from Morocco to Oman. Algeria is 100 times larger than Israel.

Israel withdrew from Sinai, southern Lebanon and Gaza, so they are more than willing to negotiate.

Its no longer Syria's oil. They lost the Golan when they tried to destroy Israel in the Six Day War.

When I was younger, I used to side with the Palestinians. When viewed from a distance they do indeed come off as the victims. However, upon closer inspection, one can easily see that they've rejected every peace treaty offered. Arabs use Palestinians in order to try and reclaim the Holy Land. Make no mistake, this is a religious war above all else. They would allow Jews to live there as long as they remain a minority with no real power.

Muslims are already in full control over Mecca and Medina, their two holiest sites. The Shia have full access to their holy sites in Iran as well. On the other hand, Constantinople has been under Muslim rule for over 500 years. Did they give it back? Nope. Everyone accepts that as Turkish territory nowadays. The Orthodox patriarch is still there.

Likewise, Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel, while maintaining its status as a holy place for all three faiths. In the future, if Palestinians gain their own state, they can have East Jerusalem as their capital. It will be a divided city just like Nicosia in Cyprus is.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:36 PM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,790,245 times
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How did moving the embassy to Jerusalem serve U.S. national interests?
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:43 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Maybe not in international lay, but when you have giant countries like the Russia, the US, Canada, Australia or Brazil who have large underpopulated areas, that were also acquired through expansion, it becomes ridiculous to criticize Israel on that front, especially given that the land grab only happened following an invasion.

The Arab world is already ridiculously large as well, extending all the way from Morocco to Oman. Algeria is 100 times larger than Israel.

Israel withdrew from Sinai, southern Lebanon and Gaza, so they are more than willing to negotiate.

Its no longer Syria's oil. They lost the Golan when they tried to destroy Israel in the Six Day War.

When I was younger, I used to side with the Palestinians. When viewed from a distance they do indeed come off as the victims. However, upon closer inspection, one can easily see that they've rejected every peace treaty offered. Arabs use Palestinians in order to try and reclaim the Holy Land. Make no mistake, this is a religious war above all else. They would allow Jews to live there as long as they remain a minority with no real power.

Muslims are already in full control over Mecca and Medina, their two holiest sites. The Shia have full access to their holy sites in Iran as well. On the other hand, Constantinople has been under Muslim rule for over 500 years. Did they give it back? Nope. Everyone accepts that as Turkish territory nowadays. The Orthodox patriarch is still there.

Likewise, Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel, while maintaining its status as a holy place for all three faiths. In the future, if Palestinians gain their own state, they can have East Jerusalem as their capital. It will be a divided city just like Nicosia in Cyprus is.
Regardless of which side is the bigger terrorist, it is Syria's oil as the Golan Heights never ceased to be Syrian. Whether people think they should be or not is irrelevant because the law does not allow for such exceptions. The international authorities should add the revenues of any oil sales plus interest to Israel's foreign debt to Syria.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Florida
77,005 posts, read 47,597,802 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Explain to me how and why do you become a citizen of a country you don't recognize and want wiped off the face of the earth?
Can you just answer the question I asked you, as opposed to deflecting by asking me questions of your own? Who told you the last thing they want is become citizens?
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:05 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
Reputation: 9728
They showed Israeli Arabs, they seemed to be on the Palestinians' side, not on Israel's.
And I understand it. While they are doing better than Palestinians outside Israel, they are not at all doing as well as Jewish Israelis.
Interesting read on Israel's plans for more ethnic cleansing:
https://www.aljazeera.com/palestinep...622779946.html

The last two paragraphs are funny:

"Many [Arab] families in these villages have lived in Israel since before 1948 – before there was a state of Israel, in other words. One man described himself as "more Israeli than Lieberman," referring to the Soviet Union-born foreign minister who immigrated to Israel at the age of 20.

"Netanyahu cannot take me and tell me, ‘you are living here,’" Fayoum said. "I am Israeli, only Israeli.""
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