Viewers Discretion Advised! - Film About Quran (fitna discussion) (Israel, legal, lawyer)

[camping!]

I know that there will be Islamic apologists who will try to equate honor killings, suicide bombers etc... with the Catholic Inquisition. So, to get that out of the way, that and the crusades were over five hundred years ago. Somehow Christianity was able to stop their murderous instincts. Why can't Islam?
Oh, and the Jonesboro Baptist Church........everyone knows and views them as nutjobs one eclipse away from mass suicide. There is no one that defends their views (their right to free speach, but not what they are saying). Muslims dance around the murderous views like those espoused by the Imams shown in the film. Why is that? Fear or agreement?
Lets get to the meat of the topic. Why do most Muslims stay silent about the jihads? Why no outcry at the use of down syndromed women as bombs? Why no outcry at the murders of muslim women and girls who are honor killed? This is what I would like to know.
Oh, and please don't tell me stories of Palestine. These are not Palestinians that committed the murders in the Netherlands, Britain and Spain. Or 9/11 for that matter.

[bentlebee]

Originally Posted by camping!

I know that there will be Islamic apologists who will try to equate honor killings, suicide bombers etc... with the Catholic Inquisition. So, to get that out of the way, that and the crusades were over five hundred years ago. Somehow Christianity was able to stop their murderous instincts. Why can't Islam?
Oh, and the Jonesboro Baptist Church........everyone knows and views them as nutjobs one eclipse away from mass suicide. There is no one that defends their views (their right to free speach, but not what they are saying). Muslims dance around the murderous views like those espoused by the Imams shown in the film. Why is that? Fear or agreement?
Lets get to the meat of the topic. Why do most Muslims stay silent about the jihads? Why no outcry at the use of down syndromed women as bombs? Why no outcry at the murders of muslim women and girls who are honor killed? This is what I would like to know.
Oh, and please don't tell me stories of Pakistan. These are not Pakistanis that committed the murders in the Netherlands, Britain and Spain. Or 9/11 for that matter.

Exactly no outcry only dancing in the streets after an attack.
That is why I think what the rev. and Obama are doing or not doing is so dangerous.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by bentlebee

Exactly no outcry only dancing in the streets after an attack.
That is why I think what the rev. and Obama are doing or not doing is so dangerous.

Based upon what you stated in Posting #20, I certainly could understand why you feel this way. I'm just not sure that the candidate himself really is of that mindset, but based upon your experiences I can understand your concerns.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by bentlebee

Wilders is showing that hate preaching has been the cause of the images he is showing and that freedom of speech is no longer there.

Wilders does nothing else but hide behind the freedom of speech.
If there was no freedom of speech in the Netherlands, Wilders would not have been in parliament, nor would he have been able to make this movie as a member of the parliament.

In Europe I can't wear a star of David without being affraid for being hit or spit on by muslims.

Aren't you forgetting the 'Christian' white supremacists in Europe?
Besides many Muslim are victims of racial profiling and are barred from disco's etc just because of their skin colour.
Most people with Arabic names are discriminated when they are looking for a job, even those with the best education.

The muslims want to force others to live in their country the way they wanted too.

And what are the Americans then doing in Iraq?
If everyone in the US is free to own a gun, then why is this not also the case for the groups the American sponsored Iraqi government is opposed to?

In the sixties these people came to The netherlands because the Dutch people didn't wnat to do certain work. Than they had their entire families coming over and now the trhird generation doesn't want to speak Dutch, doesn't want to work and there is a high level of criminals amongst them.

LoL the 3rd generation speaks better Dutch than Moroccan, Turkish or whatever their grandparents' original nationality is.
The thing is that the Dutch government never required the 1st generation to speak Dutch. The government believed that they could make the guest workers go back when they did not need them anymore. But the fact is that their children had become Dutch, they were born in Holland and were more European than their parents' nationality.
And because the authorities had allowed the families to come over and they had payed their taxes during their stay here, they had earned the right to stay in Holland.

Because the jobs of the 1st generation did were simple jobs these people often only had a primary school diploma (maybe not even that), so their children often are behind on education, doubly so when the parents could not speak Dutch. So it is not surprising that most of the 2nd generation became frustrated when menial jobs were not in abundance as they were for their parents. The 2nd generation rarely finished high school because of problems with the culture clash and the fact that their own parents only had a primary school diploma. So it is not surprising that many of the 'other' Dutch became poor.
The most criminals that get caught never had a decent education and come from poor families, so it is not surprising that the ‘other’ Dutch also became a large part of the criminals being caught.

Originally Posted by camping!

Somehow Christianity was able to stop their murderous instincts.

Considering how America ended up in Iraq I doubt this very much.
But I grant you that the Christians had always been good in pretending that they never had murderous instincts or that they were 'civilised.'

[camping!]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

to?

Originally Posted by camping!Considering how America ended up in Iraq I doubt this very much.
But I grant you that the Christians had always been good in pretending that they never had murderous instincts or that they were 'civilised.'

Perhaps you didn't know, Tricky D that the US is not a theocracy. What this means is that Bush is not our religious leader. It also means that the US doesn't have an official state religion. The majority of Americans are Christians, but there are also every religion and anti religion you can think of that is being practiced here openly and safely.
Try being a wiccan in Afganistan.

[bentlebee]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by bentlebee Wilders does nothing else but hide behind the freedom of speech.
If there was no freedom of speech in the Netherlands, Wilders would not have been in parliament, nor would he have been able to make this movie as a member of the parliament.

Aren't you forgetting the 'Christian' white supremacists in Europe?
Besides many Muslim are victims of racial profiling and are barred from disco's etc just because of their skin colour.
Most people with Arabic names are discriminated when they are looking for a job, even those with the best education.

And what are the Americans then doing in Iraq?
If everyone in the US is free to own a gun, then why is this not also the case for the groups the American sponsored Iraqi government is opposed to?

LoL the 3rd generation speaks better Dutch than Moroccan, Turkish or whatever their grandparents' original nationality is.
The thing is that the Dutch government never required the 1st generation to speak Dutch. The government believed that they could make the guest workers go back when they did not need them anymore. But the fact is that their children had become Dutch, they were born in Holland and were more European than their parents' nationality.
And because the authorities had allowed the families to come over and they had payed their taxes during their stay here, they had earned the right to stay in Holland.

Because the jobs of the 1st generation did were simple jobs these people often only had a primary school diploma (maybe not even that), so their children often are behind on education, doubly so when the parents could not speak Dutch. So it is not surprising that most of the 2nd generation became frustrated when menial jobs were not in abundance as they were for their parents. The 2nd generation rarely finished high school because of problems with the culture clash and the fact that their own parents only had a primary school diploma. So it is not surprising that many of the 'other' Dutch became poor.
The most criminals that get caught never had a decent education and come from poor families, so it is not surprising that the ‘other’ Dutch also became a large part of the criminals being caught.

Originally Posted by camping!Considering how America ended up in Iraq I doubt this very much.
But I grant you that the Christians had always been good in pretending that they never had murderous instincts or that they were 'civilised.'

First the freedom of speech stoped when the filmmaker was killed riding his bike during day time in Amsterdam and as the short film showed, the murderer stated he would do it again. The son of this filmmaker was even threatened at school by muslims.

Second, I never in my live have had any problems being a Jew although there has been and always will be the jokes, but a joke is different even although they aren't always nice and can be painful, but with the large group of muslims it is completely different.

Third, in The netherlands there are mainly public school which are mandatory, also for 2nd generation. Since their parents don't wish to speak Dutch, they are very much behind in the language and will keep forever a lower level of what they could get if the would intergrate into the Dutch society. The 3rd generation is much worse, since they believe their parents and family should get more because in the sixties they did the dirty work for which they were paid. Most of them don't go to the mandatory school and many are illigal and became criminals and everybody knows what is going on in the mosques and that is very bad. There are over 400 mosques in a Country that fits 3 times Florida, so can you imagine how much hate there is preached? more than we think. The government found out that El quada even was reqruiting some where. It is hard to believe but they had facts. It makes me sick to even think about it. Europe is no longer what it was, to bad and for me to hear the Rev. Wright starting preaching hate over here..... Do we want to go the same route as Europe. I'm glad Wilders made this movie with only facts and images which everybody knows about. How many religions would allow people to cut off heads and fly planes into buildings? Only one. If Obama allows and endorse the man preaching hate, that says enough to me.

[Lucidus]

Here is the video that Muslims have tried to suppress. Fortunately information is not easily controlled on the internet. It is available here:

Hot Air » Blog Archive » LiveLeak pulls “Fitna” after receiving “very serious” threats

and at many other sites. I am not necessarily endorsing the video but I think we must make a stand for freedom of speech.

Comments from Muslims are welcome.

[MiamiU08]

Originally Posted by bentlebee

...How many religions would allow people to cut off heads and fly planes into buildings? Only one. If Obama allows and endorse the man preaching hate, that says enough to me.

Reading your posts is a little like listening to Walter in The Big Lebowski. Reverend Wright is your "Vietnam."

[FireKwame]

Originally Posted by bentlebee

Wilders is showing that hate preaching has been the cause of the images he is showing and that freedom of speech is no longer there. In The Netherlands there is no freedom of speech any more, just as in other European Countries. If you speak you mind you will be on the death list. You don't even have to say something bad, he shows that converting to another religion is enough to be killed and it's allowed according the Quran.
In Europe I can't wear a star of David without being affraid for being hit or spit on by muslims. That is how far it has become. The relation with Obama is that his rev. is also preaching hate, not as the muslims but it is similar as how they were starting to preach hate in a mosque. Mosque are rarely used for religion and if I see the images of the rev. Wright on several occasion, that has nothing to do with religion, but just hate preaching. So people don't be ignorant, stand up and act and don't allow the rev. and others to do so.

My sister-in-law is from France. She and her husband (my brother) used to spend three weeks in Paris each year, for over 20 years. Everything was "Paris this" and 'Paris that!" until about four years ago. They don't go anymore. They said the Muslims are taking over and the city doesn't even feel the same to them. Now her mother visits the US instead.


I think any religion that PROHIBITS you (under penalty of DEATH) from leaving it is pretty d*mn scary.

[FireKwame]

I've had to watch it in bits and pieces...


"If my Mother or my Sister have sex with another man...then I will kill them too"

Wow! Sure sounds like a peaceful guy to me!

I've spent most of my life being a completely open minded person when it came to religion. But, now Islam is the exception. All you have to do is STUDY what it does to women, to gays, to young girls...what it has done to Europe, to the USA...how could anybody find it an acceptable way of life?