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It's undeniable that things are much better for minorities than they used to be. After all, as you guys are so fond of saying, we did in fact have a black president. Something that would have been inconceivable before democrats enacted civil rights legislation.
I'll also note for NVplumber that often white people start these conversations and then get defensive about them.
This was done in this very thread.
Nothing I said was meant to imply I blame white people for the present mindsets of black Americans. However, the ideology I mentioned is an historic cultural tenet of America. As such, that ideology impacts ALL Americans, including black Americans.
I personally would rather black Americans focus much moreso on comparing our demographic to itself and not to white people. I also would like black Americans to quit focusing on what society as a whole considers to be "success." American "success" is based upon a white patriarchal definition and even though our demographic has been in this country for over 400 years, for a majority of that time, we were kept apart from whites and heavily segregated and so our version of "success" and living a decent life from a cultural perspective was different from whites. I believe black Americans need to focus more on our cultural history and define success for ourselves (note economics is a part of this cultural history but it is not the major focus) and quit speaking so much about white people and what they have versus what we have as a whole. It is ridiculous to me, based upon the recent past, to expect black Americans to be equal with whites from a financial/income/economic perspective especially. However, there does need to be goals set and accomplished in this regard. But to look at whites versus blacks and get mad about the disparity instead of looking at blacks in 2018 versus blacks in 1988 and working on out doing our parents/grandparents is just silly to me.
Whites often create these conversations, or when black people have these conversations, they will invest themselves into the conversation and then get butt hurt basically when historic truths are brought up and then they will claim the black people "played the race card." IMO most white people who say this just want black people to ignore the fact that history does have an effect on the present. Those white people also want us to invest ourselves into a black inferiority complex because the only way to claim that blacks are worse than whites for no other reason than because they are black, is to invest ones-self in a white supremacy ideology. And on the whole, by and large, black people will not do this and it frustrates the white person. So my suggestion is always, to these defensive white people, stop talking to us about racial matters because you will only be upset and mad we don't agree with you (not speaking to you specifically but to people who do this sort of thing, like the OP).
African Americans are under no obligation to forget our past or the nation’s past. It ain’t gonna happen. Forget it. If that makes you feel some kind of negative way, so be it. You can holler about “race cards” all you want, but don’t deal me cards from a racist deck if you don’t want a race card.
If you’re not doing anything racist, then you won’t have any problems. A hit dog will holler. If you’re not getting hit, quit yelping.
Ummm, I'm not the one yelping like a gut shot dog. All I did was express an opinion about what the probems with "playing the race card" are. I didn't even come close to saying anyone should forget the past either. Quite the opposite if you had bothered to read and comprehend rather than looking for an excuse to take umbrage.
I don't feel negative in any way about how the past makes you or anyone else feel, and really don't care about what anyone feels their obligations to any given past are. What I tried to impart with my post was that we can move forward as one people , and acknowledge the past without hating on each other for it now. But, if you want to keep flogging a critter that isn't going to get up you are free to do so. The Japanese were responsible for some serious atrocities committed on my forebears. But I don't expend any energy hating the Japanese today.
As I said, it's the generalized hatred and animosity being kept alive via this "race card" thing that's the problem here. I reiterate that the past can be acknowledged without dividing ourselves as a people by hating each other for things we weren't even caught up in. But, if that's the road you want to take I acquiesce that nobody can stop you. Just don't expect any positive results. That whole mentality has been tried and been a dismal failure. Yet it continues unabated. Isn't that the definition (in so many words) of insanity?
And the biggest consumers of rap music are white teens.
But when it comes to the negative impact of rap music: dress, use of the N-word, speech, trying to live out “street life,” etc., that negative influence is affecting black teens (particularly those in the inner city) far more than white teens.
Ummm, I'm not the one yelping like a gut shot dog. All I did was express an opinion about what the probems with "playing the race card" are. I didn't even come close to saying anyone should forget the past either. Quite the opposite if you had bothered to read and comprehend rather than looking for an excuse to take umbrage.
I don't feel negative in any way about how the past makes you or anyone else feel, and really don't care about what anyone feels their obligations to any given past are. What I tried to impart with my post was that we can move forward as one people , and acknowledge the past without hating on each other for it now. But, if you want to keep flogging a critter that isn't going to get up you are free to do so. The Japanese were responsible for some serious atrocities committed on my forebears. But I don't expend any energy hating the Japanese today.
As I said, it's the generalized hatred and animosity being kept alive via this "race card" thing that's the problem here. I reiterate that the past can be acknowledged without dividing ourselves as a people by hating each other for things we weren't even caught up in. But, if that's the road you want to take I acquiesce that nobody can stop you. Just don't expect any positive results. That whole mentality has been tried and been a dismal failure. Yet it continues unabated. Isn't that the definition (in so many words) of insanity?
I'd ask you what makes you believe that black people by and large "hate" whites in America.
I'm black and don't hate white people at all.
Speaking of historic truths and how they impact the present is not hating white people. It is explaining why certain things are the way they are. I think oftentimes white Americans get stuck on this explanation and think it equals "hate" or "animosity" when it doesn't. It is just speaking of how the past impacts the present.
Now, I'll note, I do agree with what RedZin said earlier in that a group of people are made up of individuals. Of course, I'm sure that there are some individual black people who hate white people (I've personally come across them BTW). But IMO any sort of hate based on race is insanity and a psychological problem of said individual. A majority of black people in America who speak about history do not hate white people just a like a majority of white Americans don't hate black people either.
I feel that too often people get too invested in history from both sides and instead of using it as a means to grow and evolve and better our lives and communities, it can be used to denounce and denigrate other people and drive division. However, I do not think this is done on a grand scale by black Americans. As I noted, it was not a self proclaimed black poster who posted this very thread. Black people rarely state via any organization that they hate white people or blame them for all individual black people's failures. IMO the idea that we do, is a part of the adherence to the ideology I mentioned earlier. Many whites are of the idea that blacks only "complain" and "whine" when really we speak to each other about history and we often set goals and strategize in order to empower and assist each other (not advocate for white people to help us). Our culture was brought up in this thread. Black culture is heavy on activism. It has an historic reference from the 1700s forward, which was the time period with being black was cast as a bad/negative/inferior thing to be and it has been a constant struggle in the country that culminated in the CRM of the 1960s. Most Americans are not well versed in the civil rights activism of black America from 1700 through 1953. Us reviewing issues, setting goals, strategizing, and implementing/acting upon said strategies and goals is a cultural tenet of our demographic and especially so when it comes to dismantling white supremacy racism and it's ideology from this country. IMO our demographic has done a great service to the nation in this regard and to ignore it or stop adhering to it, would not be a positive thing for us to do.
But when it comes to the negative impact of rap music: dress, use of the N-word, speech, trying to live out “street life,” etc., that negative influence is affecting black teens (particularly those in the inner city) far more than white teens.
Not true. FWIW less black people live in the inner city today (a majority of black people live in suburban communities) and way more whites today use the n-word and dress/emulate the worst rappers than black teens in my experience. I live in a very integrated city and work with youth via programs (all kinds of youth) and it is shocking to me that so many white kids and Latino kids call each other n's today. It is pretty ridiculous to me actually. I often counsel black teens to not use the word and even though they have their silly, ridiculous arguments they often tell me that I make sense and I know they think about it. I tell white kids and Latinos to not use it too, but for me, as I mentioned earlier, I'm more invested and interested in black youth/kids not denigrating themselves or seeing themselves in an inferior way versus being concerned about other youth in this regard.
Racial inequality and racism are to disparate things.
Regardless, black culture was better off in the 1950's even though overt racism existed. They of course never experienced the dehumanizing life of their slave ancestors, but still had a strong and positive assimilation into American culture. They had intact families, making their kids get an education, going to church, good work ethic, etc.
It wasn't until LBJ infamously said "he would give the uppity negros a little something, not enough to make a difference. Then he'd have those n iggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years".
Sure enough, despite his racist thoughts and comments, he accomplished his goal with all sorts of handouts and programs designed to say blacks were incapable of fending for and taking care of themselves, without white peoples help.
So as someone else said, the Democrats will not let racial strife and grievances go, because they manage to put together coalitions of voters based on victim-hood, identity politics and stirring racial animus.
`
LBJ was a man of his time. He spent his time in Congress referring to barbaric yellow dwarves in Asia during and following WW2. He used the N word, a lot, as was common among white men in those times past, regardless of politics.
There is no proof LBJ said he would have them voting Democrat for 200 years. Best I can tell is a biographer attributed the remark to hearsay. Having said this, it’s not too difficult to imagine he used that line of reasoning to persuade Southern Segregationists to support the end of Jim Crow Laws.
LBJ was also the POTUS who sought to create opportunity and increase the standard of living in white Appalachia- the people who stayed, despite that the economy no longer had a profitable use for the people. He oversaw massive construction and grants to create better housing with indoor plumbing for the people. While this frenzy contributed to temporary employment, it also encouraged generational dependency.
Today, the economies of many counties in Appalachia are dependent on handouts, SSDI and all forms of welfare. Seniors sell their pills to buy food and scratch off lotto tickets. 50 years later Trump comes along and campaigns on giving hope to this population that coal mining would create jobs. And the people voted for him.
They also believed it when he promised to give them better healthcare and the government would pay for it.
Politicians says all sorts of things to persuade people to vote for them.
Now a black or mixed race, divorced woman marries the Prince of England.
We have multi million dollar black singers, actors, etc.
We have/had black people in our government.
Can we now finally say that the race card should be history!
There are just good and bad people and nasty people who say nasty things and they come in all
Colors!
Let’s move on ..,
There was a black president.....notwithstanding the fact that the majority of whites DID NOT VOTE FOR IT. To follow your reasoning, the fact that the majority of whites voted against a black president should be proof of the race card because the race card is about white racism or attempts to suppress, if not oppress, black aspirations. Ergo, the majority of whites voting against a black person becoming president cannot be sanitized by the fact that a minority of whites did vote for a black president. (yes...I know there were other factors of why whites voted against him....but if that is the case you have to know that there were other reasons that whites voted for him, even if they were racist)
Your reasoning is akin to David Duke saying that a black president proves that he is not nor ever has been a racist. One thing has no relationship to the other. In other words, because some whites are not racist it does not therefore follow that all whites must not be racist. What you are arguing is a well known fallacy called the "fallacy of composition". You are trying to make the exception.....the rule. You are trying to hide racism from the behavior of non racist.....to make blacks seem like the real problem. It akin to not telling people that the man in the video has walked through a swarm of gnats that cannot be seen in the video, just the man behaving erratically. You want to narrate that the man has a mental problem....which you cannot do if you let all the facts be known.
Here is the thing, though. Think of crime and racism. What percentage of people need to be criminally minded for it to impact the quality of life of citizens? Seriously....think about that for a moment. Even in the most feared cities where crime is seen as destroying the quality of life of people.....its only a very small percentage of people committing these acts. Thus, what percentage of whites does it take for their racism to be a problem and impact the quality of life of black people in general? Keep in mind that there are about 5 whites for every 1 black person in this country and just like a criminal, a racist has a one-to-many impact. In other words, it does not take 100% or even 50% of whites to make for a race problem. Also, just like crime, racial discrimination is illegal......but it does not prevent it from happening. People act like since the nation made laws against racial discrimination against blacks....that racial discrimination against blacks ENDED then. How long has stealing been illegal? When did stealing end?
As I said, it's the generalized hatred and animosity being kept alive via this "race card" thing that's the problem here. I reiterate that the past can be acknowledged without dividing ourselves as a people by hating each other for things we weren't even caught up in. But, if that's the road you want to take I acquiesce that nobody can stop you. Just don't expect any positive results. That whole mentality has been tried and been a dismal failure. Yet it continues unabated. Isn't that the definition (in so many words) of insanity?
No, it's not generalized hatred and animosity. It's much more than that.
Blacks are pulled over for traffic violations at a higher rate than whites, and the search rate is 2-3 times higher than for whites even though the "hit rate" of the search is higher for whites than for blacks or hispanics. https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/tutorials/
Black men who commit the same crimes as white men receive federal prison sentences that are, on average, nearly 20 percent longer, according to a new report on sentencing disparities from the United States Sentencing Commission (USSC). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5d583dca4257
In a 2013 Pew Research Center poll, 46% of black people reported unfair treatment in stores and restaurants, compared to only 16 percent of white people. Theft cost U.S. retailers some $32 billion in losses in 2015, but racial profiling isn’t going to save the economy; studies show that white people steal more than black people, but are arrested at lower rates. Racist surveillance does have one significant effect, though: it exacts a huge psychological toll on black shoppers, often making every retail experience into an exhausting ordeal. https://theestablishment.co/the-emot...k-bcda5e51a7fd
In almost all major American cities, most African American and Hispanic students attend public schools where a majority of their classmates qualify as poor or low-income, a new analysis of federal data shows.
This systemic economic and racial isolation looms as a huge obstacle for efforts to make a quality education available to all American students. Researchers have found that the single-most powerful predictor of racial gaps in educational achievement is the extent to which students attend schools surrounded by other low-income students.
Those issues need to be addressed, they won't go away because a bunch of white folk have decided to claim that every complaint about injustice or racial bias is just blacks or latinos "playing the race card".
I recently talked to a black friend of mine who recently returned from a vacation in Reno. I asked if he had fun and he said he had but that lots of things haven't changed, he said you can still tell when you walk into certain casinos that blacks aren't welcome and you still just have to suck it up and avoid those places. He's 73 years old, try to imagine how you would feel if you had to figure out when you walked into a store or a casino whether or not you would feel welcome there.
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