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Old 05-26-2018, 04:32 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,142,059 times
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It's too bad William Safire is dead. He would have loved to write a column about this.

Let's keep out the "fink" and "rat" as insulting terms.

I don't know the actual definitions, but I tend to think of spies as professional, long-term, thorough, and salaried.

I think an informant could be anyone, either pre-arranged, or just someone who more casually shares secret information.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:40 PM
 
5,888 posts, read 3,225,564 times
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Same thing in practice. An informant is basically just an untrained unofficial spy for whom spying is not a profession, and is usually (not always) serving as an informant only to avoid criminal liability of his own.

In other words, an informant is typically a criminal defendant avoiding prosecution by spying on his friends/associates.

So they both perform similar functions but out of different reasons.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:56 PM
 
Location: The 719
18,015 posts, read 27,463,514 times
Reputation: 17332
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Some con-men would call an informant a spy in a pathetic search for sympathy they don't deserve.
Sure. I agree.

But let's start putting together all of the facts and arrange them according to the context.

Who knew what when, who buttered whose bread, and for how much, etc?
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:37 PM
 
Location: The State Of California
10,400 posts, read 15,583,593 times
Reputation: 4283
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
I'm just so glad the question is being asked?

Crammed unfortunately in some cases.

But seriously. What is an informant?

Is an informant like a fink?

Let's go wiki...

... Lindsey Graham says no, Clapper says yes.

I'm still confused.

What say you?


A Spy is a governmental official , a informant is just a criminal or Thug that gives information to government officials.

Last edited by Howest2008; 05-26-2018 at 05:46 PM..
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Old 05-26-2018, 07:54 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,841,834 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
I'm just so glad the question is being asked?

Crammed unfortunately in some cases.

But seriously. What is an informant?

Is an informant like a fink?

Let's go wiki...

... Lindsey Graham says no, Clapper says yes.

I'm still confused.

What say you?

semantics.
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Old 05-26-2018, 08:36 PM
 
Location: The 719
18,015 posts, read 27,463,514 times
Reputation: 17332
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
semantics.
How about these semantics?

Clapper, "They were in there spying to gain access, leverage, and influence."

So, are spies "in there" gaining access, leverage and influence just already in there established informants?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
As has been pointed out more than once, an informant is merely turning over information he gains during his normal activities.

If he's trying gain additional access or attempting to gain leverage and influence, he's no longer just an informant, he's a spy.
Ooh, it that's correct, then Clapper speak with forked tongue... Mid-sentence to boot.

Last edited by McGowdog; 05-26-2018 at 09:04 PM..
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:02 PM
 
28,667 posts, read 18,788,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog View Post
How about these semantics?

Clapper, "They were in there spying to gain access, leverage, and influence."

So, are spies "in there" gaining access, leverage and influence just already in there established informants?
As has been pointed out more than once, an informant is merely turning over information he gains during his normal activities.

If he's trying gain additional access or attempting to gain leverage and influence, he's no longer just an informant, he's a spy.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:22 PM
 
Location: The 719
18,015 posts, read 27,463,514 times
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The View

Joy Baher: Was the F.B.I. spying on Trump's campaign?

James Clapper: no I uh nitunanituna nit una nit una No I un a not! No, but he a, No, they were not. They were spying on di di di a term I don't particularly like, but on what the Russians were doing, trying to understand we're the Russians infiltrating, trying to ...

Joy Baher: Why doesn't he like that? Shouldn't he like that?

Hmmm
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:13 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,218 posts, read 22,365,741 times
Reputation: 23858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
It's too bad William Safire is dead. He would have loved to write a column about this.

Let's keep out the "fink" and "rat" as insulting terms.

I don't know the actual definitions, but I tend to think of spies as professional, long-term, thorough, and salaried.

I think an informant could be anyone, either pre-arranged, or just someone who more casually shares secret information.
You're close to the dictionary's definitions.

According to Merriam-Webster, a spy is someone who watches secretly, usually with hostile intentions.

The Free Dictionary defines spy as:
1. One who secretly collects information concerning the enemies of a government or group.
2. One who secretly collects information for a business about one or more of its competitors.
3. One who secretly keeps watch on another or others.

According to Merriam-Webster, an informant is one who gives information.
A second definition is one who supplies cultural or linguistic data in response to interrogation by an investigator.

According to the Free Dictionary, an informer is:
a. One that gives information.
b. One who informs against others; an informer.
c. One who furnishes linguistic or cultural information to a researcher.

Merriam-Webster defines words itself. The Free Dictionary is an aggregator, and defines words by the most common definitions that are collected from several different dictionaries.

What's the common thread in both?

A spy acts in secret with hostile or competitive intent.

An informer gives information, sometimes in response to an investigator.

It seems to me that a person who thinks they are under suspicion of committing a crime would see an informer as a spy.

One who doesn't think they are under suspicion of a crime would not see an informer as simply answering asked questions. Unless he believed the informer had hostile intent toward him. Then he would see the informer as a spy.

The informer (or spy) in this case is a well-known former foreign affairs intelligence expert who worked for the government for a long time and is now teaching foreign affairs at a college.

While he probably had access to knowledge gained by spies during his time in the government, that doesn't mean he was a spy.

It only means he may have used information gained by spies. This information could have been gained through open knowledge or through espionage, as spies use all means available.

But as an informer, he was called upon by investigators to give information that he knew through direct questioning.

So, which is he? Only a close examination of the person, his occupation was, the responsibilities of his job, and to what level of competitive intent the job entailed would provide an answer.
As a teacher, the competitive intent is most likely non-existent now, as that's a major career change for him. But it doesn't negate the expertise that was gained from his former profession.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:18 PM
 
32,068 posts, read 15,062,274 times
Reputation: 13686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire600 View Post
The deep state got caught. Time to put the big girl panties on and go to prison.
Yep. Manafort will probably be first
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