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Old 05-27-2018, 11:29 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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So, they said on the news that sanctions against Venezuela remain until the country returns to democracy.
Makes me wonder, is it just me or do sanctions get abused these days to force nay ideas on other countries?

If a country doesn't want to be democratic, who are we to say they must be democratic? After all, democracy is just one of many systems. Saudi-Arabia and other such countries have no democracy, yet there are no sanctions. China does not have a democracy, yet no sanctions. The Chinese clearly say that democracy is not what they want for their country. So, why can't we just accept that some countries prefer a theocracy or a monarchy or a one-party system or whatever? We are not the referee of the world. What if China sanctioned the US and Europe because those don't have a communist government? It would be just as subjective...

Don't get me wrong, the Venezuelan president Maduro is a nutcase, who due to his incompetence is running his country into the ground. But still, that country doesn't threaten neighbors the way NK did, nor is there a genocide. I think we should limit the sanctions tool to really severe cases where international peace is in danger, and stop interfering in countries' internal affairs. If the people in Venezuela are tired of Maduro, it is their own responsibility to get rid of him.

Not to mention that the US for instance has itself a rather distorted type of democracy. A president who got to power with the help of Russians, corporations, personal wealth etc., and didn't even get the majority of voters, but only won due to a system where a farmer's vote has more weight than a city dweller's vote. Nor can Americans directly select who they want for president, they can only choose between a few candidates that have been preselected by a small group of citizens.
Or the take the Germany situation, where there is basically no opposition left because the big parties are all in the government. (Imagine a joint US government of Democrats and Republicans, wouldn't that be a bit worrying?)

 
Old 05-27-2018, 11:40 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,957,018 times
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This is a good point.
If their economic or political system does not work, then how come we need interfere?
If it does not work, it will collapse on its own.

If we interfere, then we are the ones helping it collapse.
They were trying to create an oil dollar like we have as well and we crashed that attempt as well.
 
Old 05-27-2018, 11:53 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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Exactly, sanctions are being abused as a foreign politics tool. Venezuela is sitting on some of the world's biggest oil reserves. I suppose certain foreigners have an eye on them, just like on minerals in Afghanistan etc.

Or Cuba. Is there really a need to try and destroy a small island's economy just because it prefers a different political system? When Russians and Americans withdrew their nuclear warheads from Cuba and Turkey respectively decades ago, Cuba ceased to be a threat. Why not just leave them alone and if they turn out to be successful in their own way, why not just accept that?
 
Old 05-27-2018, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,904 posts, read 5,582,296 times
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I have often wondered this myself. A lot of our foreign policy seems very arbitrary to me, if the standard is supposed to be "democracy."
 
Old 05-27-2018, 12:48 PM
 
1,675 posts, read 576,235 times
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The u.s. has always destroyed democracies and installed dictatorships in latinamerica, africa and asia. They could care less about human rights in china. The partnership with the communist party of china has allow both sides to accumulate incredible fortunes by exploiting millions of chinese. The monarchies in the middle east allow the americans to invest and buy billions in weapons so their oil money continue to flow back to america.

So why are venezuela, bolivia, nk, iran, syria, cuba targeted with heavy sanctions? Because they don't want american companies and they don't buy their weapons. Like russian they even repel "benevolent" ngo's like usaids.

It is all about money. The message is clear, 'if you don't allow us to exploit your people and buy our weapons we will destroy you economically'. Those countries have all their rights to have the government they want, but I don't support any of them because they are highly corrupt also. It's like a cancer all leaders suffers from and don't know any better, as long there is money in politics things will only continue to get worst.
 
Old 05-27-2018, 12:56 PM
Status: "Apparently the worst poster on CD" (set 22 days ago)
 
27,632 posts, read 16,115,213 times
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Seems Mexico has some of the worst problems in the world. Sanctions anyone? If they’re gonna be overused..
 
Old 05-27-2018, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,116,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I have often wondered this myself. A lot of our foreign policy seems very arbitrary to me, if the standard is supposed to be "democracy."
War is a Racket - Smedley D. Butler

Quote:
War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."
 
Old 05-27-2018, 01:08 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,957,018 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
The u.s. has always destroyed democracies and installed dictatorships in latinamerica, africa and asia. They could care less about human rights in china. The partnership with the communist party of china has allow both sides to accumulate incredible fortunes by exploiting millions of chinese. The monarchies in the middle east allow the americans to invest and buy billions in weapons so their oil money continue to flow back to america.

So why are venezuela, bolivia, nk, iran, syria, cuba targeted with heavy sanctions? Because they don't want american companies and they don't buy their weapons. Like russian they even repel "benevolent" ngo's like usaids.

It is all about money. The message is clear, 'if you don't allow us to exploit your people and buy our weapons we will destroy you economically'. Those countries have all their rights to have the government they want, but I don't support any of them because they are highly corrupt also. It's like a cancer all leaders suffers from and don't know any better, as long there is money in politics things will only continue to get worst.

Excellent Post

It is worth repeating, the wealthy in this country care not what economic system they make their money under even though they claim to support Capitalism.

Under Communist China, workers have zero rights, unlike Capitalism and the wealthy in this country are perfectly fine with that.

They love Communism for the profits.
 
Old 05-27-2018, 01:17 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Excellent Post

It is worth repeating, the wealthy in this country care not what economic system they make their money under even though they claim to support Capitalism.

Under Communist China, workers have zero rights, unlike Capitalism and the wealthy in this country are perfectly fine with that.

They love Communism for the profits.
I doubt that is correct. Plus, the absence of theoretical rights does not automatically mean that people are treated poorly.

The US doesn't seem to be doing much better than China:
https://www.ituc-csi.org/ituc-global...dex-2017-18767

Only parts of Europe and Uruguay are more or less ok.
 
Old 05-27-2018, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
So, they said on the news that sanctions against Venezuela remain until the country returns to democracy.

I wasn't aware that people voted for Saudi kings. Or kings in Qatar.
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