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LOL, defend her self from what?The police ...rental cops ask her some questions and she refuse ok take her in I have no problem with that and you seem to miss (as you always do) another fact that she had the beer ,so whether she was drunk of not there are TWO things here , one ..she is under age ,Two ....no alcohol on the beach and in the video she is seen walking away ...which whether you like it or not is resisting arrest. My problem is that the THREE of them could not handle a "unarmed" girl.
There was NO proof it was her beer. They had NO reason to arrest her so she had no reason to stick around.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but a couple things stand out to me:
1. His partner's reaction tells me that he didn't think punching a young woman in the head was a reasonable response either. I also don't think the cop would have stopped if it wasn't for the partner.
2. This cop could have so easily de-escalated the situation at so many points in their interaction, but he chose to ramp it up over and over. Was punching her in the head and arresting her REALLY the just and inevitable outcome of this situation?
Young girls are going to be stupid, they should have held their cool. Trying to arrest people for drinking when they're not causing trouble is not justifiable imo....but I'm a Libertarian that hates all laws giving power to the government agents when not justified.
HEY!! (jk)
I'm with TT. They should have acted in a more professional manner. Though I can understand how a near-kick to the kiwis can set some guys off, still, they could have acted more professionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman
According to their version she tried to kick him in the nuts, she is clearly struggling and continuing to kick at them where the video picks up afterward. Is punching her justified? I don't know. What I do know is she was breaking the law and it's her actions that led to this.
There is no alcohol allowed on that beach to begin with(at least that was the case a few years back) so even if she was of legal age she could still be cited assuming they didn't change the law. Many of these kids today have an entitlement attitude and have no respect for any authority. The "all cops are bad" mentality being pushed by many people certainly doesn't help. They have never been told no and now as adults they expect that to continue but that is not the way things work. They are poorly prepared for the real world. She probably gave them am attitude when approached, refused to give them her last name and then physically assaulted them. What else do you expect to happen?
Now hold on there, grandpa (), before you go on about kids these days, have a looksee and a think.
I didn't watch it but I'm sure I get the gist of it. I'm not commenting on their hair, music or whatever the latest craze is. I'm talking about their attitude towards authority and the "my child can do no wrong" parents are a very big part of the problem. I had two bothers that were caught egging the neighbors house in their early teens. My Dad made them walk to the store 2 miles up hill during a snow storm to buy cleaner with their own paper money. When they got back he made them clean the house, not just the egged part but the whole front of the house and porch. All true except the uphill and snow part.
A lot of parents today would be trying to blame the homeowner for having their house in the way of the eggs their kids threw.
Kids have always done stupid **** and will continue to do stupid **** but the difference now is there is often little or no consequences for their actions.
2. This cop could have so easily de-escalated the situation at so many points in their interaction, but he chose to ramp it up over and over. Was punching her in the head and arresting her REALLY the just and inevitable outcome of this situation?
Cops use any reason to escalate the situation and use force and make an arrest. Some departments make cops perform more arrests for their reviews. Not to mention if they feel slighted they get to take out their anger with impunity. YOu might have seen it in another thread, but cops take alot of courses on lethal force, but barely any on de-escalating situations. So they always go to immediate violence first. This will keep happening until people line up at the town halls to change the laws.
2 officers could not subdue a 20yr old girl without punching her in the head?
What other method do you have in mind?
I know a few ways to take the fight out of someone and most, if not all of them, are not nice.
Foot sweep and put their face into concrete.
Slam them into the deck with a shoulder throw.
Slam them into the deck with a rushing throw.
Knock them out with a sleeper choke.
Use another choke to make them cease to be released from it.
Full nelson.
Some combination there of.
A thing or two or three. First, hand to hand is not nice, it is a degree of savagery to overwhelm the other person before they can overwhelm you, especially if they have something that you didn't know about, like a knife, mace, etc.. Secondly, one must realize how exposed they are to attack by others since they are focused on the person they are subduing.
Third, once things have gone physical, that is really not the point to try to de-escalate it (unless the action it to prevent it from going even further). Look at it this way, some guy is swinging his fist at you; what are going to say to make him stop swinging his fist at you? If you are not at least defending yourself, you are giving him advantages.
What other method did you have in mind?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisanicole1
This young girl is far from innoncent. However, I am not sure the cops should have punched her in the head. It seems that the cops video is going to be released showing this girl spit and kicking the officers. She refused to give her name (probably because she is on 4 year probation currently) which was also wrong. You do not have a choice. Looking at what she was convicted of for the probation it seems that this little girl is not so "innocent" after all and most likely did assualt the officers, as it has been claimed.
Someone once told me, "Let me explain to you what probation is. The State has given you this great gift of not putting you in jail. You have to repay the State by demonstrating you are the best citizen they have. That means you don't continue living your life as you did before but rather, you have to change. You have to be the best example of a person around."
Now, how much at fault is she for not understanding that? Probably not too much or at least from the stand point that a great many people don't understand that.
Now, others might say that such compulsion is wrong in a free society, it is like what the Nazi's did as demonstrated in the movie Operation Crossbow with the character Robert Henshaw. Perhaps so but if one isn't willing to do such compulsion, then don't accept the gift....or, at least, don't be surprised when the gift is taken back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
Because that is our legal system. I explained why I am defending her. She was completely in her rights to not give her name.
.......
Was she? If one is on probation and an officer asks one their name, are they completely in their rights not to give their name?
I don't know, I don't know what those legal codes are but as I stated in the concept of the gift above, things might different when one has been convicted in court.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 06-01-2018 at 04:38 AM..
Without a probable cause, yes. Getting lippy is not probable cause.
Well, once again, we may be talking apples and oranges.
The apple where a person not convicted in court does not have to give their name without probable cause.
The orange where a person convicted in court and on probation does, say, have to give their name when requested by an officer of the law.
Now, this is just speculation, but it seems that you are trying to apply the expectations of the common citizen to a person who is under the conditions of a court.....and that could be different.
Well, once again, we may be talking apples and oranges.
The apple where a person not convicted in court does not have to give their name without probable cause.
The orange where a person convicted in court and on probation does, say, have to give their name when requested by an officer of the law.
They don't.
Quote:
Now, this is just speculation, but it seems that you are trying to apply the expectations of the common citizen to a person who is under the conditions of a court.....and that could be different.
I was in wildwood NJ for the weekend and the funny thing is I did not hear about the incident until I got home Tuesday.
As someone who has been going to Wildwood NJ for years, my thoughts are this:
1. The girl is a skank and has a long criminal history. She ran her mouth when she should have cooperated. Everything would have worked out. She claimed it was her Aunts alcohol. Not buying it. It was there for the intent to drink. I don't care if it was unopened. Nobody just brings unopened alcohol to the beach with the intention of not drinking it.
2. The Wildwood Class 2 seasonal "rent a cop" is notorious for being an azzhole. I had many a run in with them when I was younger and when they get their badge for the summer, they think they are "the s**t". I was 21, walking out of a bar with a case of beer and they still harassed me when I showed them my I.D.
If I was one of the cops I would have just confiscated the alcohol and told them your "aunt" can come pick it up at the police station. For those who do not know, you cannot have any alcohol open or closed, on the beach in Wildwood. It's the law.
I can only imagine some 90 miles away in Philadelphia, anti-cop and pro-criminal DA Krasner was wishing this happened in his city.
Last edited by FKD19124; 06-01-2018 at 05:59 AM..
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), before you go on about kids these days, have a looksee and a think.
)
