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View Poll Results: Which Political Movement is the most Authoritarian?
Progressivism 23 35.94%
Conservatism 30 46.88%
Libertarianism 1 1.56%
Liberalism 10 15.63%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-06-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,733,704 times
Reputation: 6594

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We seem to be entering a massive paradigm shift. The direction the GOP seems to be heading is one of individualism and meritocracy. Libertarian elements are wresting control of the GOP away from the old-school Puritanical Conservatives, especially amongst the youth.

The Democrats are rushing headlong towards the ideology of dividing people by race, religion, gender, etc. Preference is based on how oppressed you are and not a general equality of all people. The Democrats have tossed the mantle of defending Freedom of Speech away like a disease ridden rag, leaving it for the Right to pick it up and champion it. It's gotten so bad that "Freedom of Speech is a dog whistle to the Alt-Right." according to heavily Left-Leaning publications (so about 95% of the MSM.) Let that sink in for a moment. Free Speech is a Right-Wing thing now. If you advocate for Free Speech, you're an "evil Right-Winger." The Left has been pushing patriotism away. Instead they choose to demonize and hate everything about the USA and Western Civilization. The Right has taken up the mantle of loving America and has a virtual monopoly on it now. The Left now encourages white people to hate themselves for the original sin of being born white and seek to heap privileges on "the oppressed" as punishment for evil whiteness.

Increasingly, the Left is abandoning the philosophy of Martin Luther King Jr. while the Right is increasingly embracing it. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." According to Leftist logic, Black = good & White = bad. Exactly the opposite of what MLK had in mind.

Actual Classical Liberals (AKA maximum freedom, less government meddling) are abandoning the Left and joining the Right in droves. And that's where it all gets very weird. When they dare to speak out against Progressivism and Neo-Marxism, these classical liberals are called racists, sexists, bigots, Alt-Right, Nazis, fascists, Islamophobes, etc. Just take Bret Weinstein and Jordan Peterson as examples. Both men would have been clearly Left-leaning. Bret Weinstein is Deeply Progressive both by his own self-description and by any possible measure. They've been driven out by the Leftist Gestapo of Political Correctness as punishment for their heresy. They're called Nazis and racists and sexists in direct contradiction of the facts. The Left-biased media can't seem to attack and demean them enough.

A very confused form of Puritanical authoritarian orthodoxy is forming on the Left. They are codifying what you must say, do, and think. Meanwhile, that same business is dying out on the Right.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:13 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,518,202 times
Reputation: 10096
Conservativism is about individual liberty, federalism, the US Constitution and the rule of law over the tyranny of man. It has never been authoritarian in the way that leftism is, which is inherently centralized, collectivist, and if allowed to have its way and run its course, totalitarian.

There is no "switch" happening, nor was there one in the past. In fact some people who posture as conservatives really are not, just as many leftists who claim to be democrats (small d) really are not.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,755 posts, read 9,646,362 times
Reputation: 13169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Conservativism is about individual liberty, federalism, the US Constitution and the rule of law over the tyranny of man.
yet in another thread conservatives are defending someone (R) running for office who says people should be able to keep blacks out of their businesses.

where's the individual liberty and freedom for blacks in that case?

conservatives are overall happy with the court's decision to allow a baker to refuse to serve homosexuals.

where's the individual liberty and freedom for gays in that case?



what you really mean is individual liberty for yourself and people who look like you, think like you, and worship like you.

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Old 06-06-2018, 10:34 AM
 
13,898 posts, read 6,443,819 times
Reputation: 6960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
yet in another thread conservatives are defending someone (R) running for office who says people should be able to keep blacks out of their businesses.

where's the individual liberty and freedom for blacks in that case?

conservatives are overall happy with the court's decision to allow a baker to refuse to serve homosexuals.

where's the individual liberty and freedom for gays in that case?



what you really mean is individual liberty for yourself and people who look like you, think like you, and worship like you.

Individualism includes nobody else but yourself. You are talking about pure Leftism, tribal collectivism.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Brew City
4,865 posts, read 4,179,081 times
Reputation: 6826
Neither party is for anything that is pure authoritarian or libertarian but they each have streaks of both.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:46 AM
 
Location: North America
19,784 posts, read 15,109,663 times
Reputation: 8527
No, they aren't. Not by a long shot.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,945 posts, read 12,285,067 times
Reputation: 16109
They both get pretty bad when either one gets too much power. You have republicans rushing in trying to legislate morality and criminalize victimless crimes like prostitution and casual drug use, while the democrats will go after the guns, and more recently go after our free speech under the guise we might be offending someone. It used to be the republicans that did that. The parties have switched positions when it comes to freedom of speech. They both exist to take freedoms away.. that's what politicans do. They don't like giving freedoms back. Don't get me wrong I'm no anarchist who believes society would be better off without government.. I think we have struck a pretty good balance right here, right now. Checks and balances forms of government work. They tend to skew towards the rich but the same can be said about any form of government. For all the bitching people do, I think the US is a damn good place to live and because of efforts from both parties over the decades.

I know democrats complain about the senate, electoral college, and how small states shouldn't have such a large say over the "majority" but I think it was creative of the founders to create the senate and give each state 2 senators.. it creates more gridlock which ensures more time and effort need to go into passing a piece of legislation. I generally find gridlock to be good and the fact that more time, effort, and bipartisan work is needed to pass legislation to be a positive net result of the senate.
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: NC
5,129 posts, read 2,596,756 times
Reputation: 2398
again? nope on before and nope on now.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,524,110 times
Reputation: 25816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
yet in another thread conservatives are defending someone (R) running for office who says people should be able to keep blacks out of their businesses.

where's the individual liberty and freedom for blacks in that case?

conservatives are overall happy with the court's decision to allow a baker to refuse to serve homosexuals.

where's the individual liberty and freedom for gays in that case?



what you really mean is individual liberty for yourself and people who look like you, think like you, and worship like you.

And Trump is ramping up the 'culture' wars regarding the NFL and the flag - as well as race wars for the same thing. Black NFL players kneeling vs white MAGA America.

He got no problem exploiting race AND he thinks that will help R's win in the midterms.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:13 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 7,101,396 times
Reputation: 5613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Conservativism is about individual liberty, federalism, the US Constitution and the rule of law over the tyranny of man. It has never been authoritarian in the way that leftism is, which is inherently centralized, collectivist, and if allowed to have its way and run its course, totalitarian.
The current president clearly does not support Constitutional checks and balances or the rule of law. He believes in absolute presidential power, authoritarianism, and degradation of the legislative and judicial branches. He supports his own brand of tyranny. That is what running the country as a CEO is - tyranical authoritarianism. People who say that government should be run like a business are really asking for a monarchy.

I would argue that both the left and the right can become totalitarian if they become too extreme. I know conservatives would like to believe that it is only the left that can become totalitarian, but they are wrong. The right can go that way, too. The American Constitutional democracy is designed to prevent that kind of extremism, but it can happen if the American people allow it, as some of them seem to be doing now. When we encourage those in power to act with an "iron fist" to exclude the people we don't want, to remove protections of the weak, to insist on the absolute rule of the powerful without regard for multiculturalism and for variance of opinions, when we start to cut into freedom of expression and of the press, then we are asking for authoritarian government. And that is what is happening right now.
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