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Old 06-09-2018, 07:00 AM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
9,267 posts, read 5,118,841 times
Reputation: 8471

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Those who preach "free market" don't actually believe in them.
Oh here we go! It's better that health care recipients are purposely oblivious to delivery methods and costs.

All they need to know is to vote D.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:05 AM
 
18,983 posts, read 9,073,833 times
Reputation: 14688
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
I'm so glad we are on the path to the horror show of early to mid 2000s health care when people got slammed for things like ambulance rides because they weren't approved by insurance companies who claimed their car accident injuries were preexisting conditions and therefore rejected coverage, leaving people with massive bills.
You have just described right wing Nirvana, if we are to go by the posts in this thread. It seems Conservatives want to return us to those good old days:

**When an insurance company can decide that the acne you had at 15 is a preexisting condition and disqualifies you for health insurance.

**When an insurance company can drop you after years of paying premiums the first time you actually attempt to use the insurance you paid for for all those years.

**When an insurance company could cap your benefits and simply drop you once you reach that cap. How many people hit that cap in the middle of their cancer chemotherapy and were simply out of luck?

**When insurance companies could offer junk policies that take your money every month but actually cover nothing.

You all remember those good old days, right? I hope you enjoyed them, because that's exactly the future the GOP has envisioned for you.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:08 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
Yet, if one reads your article closely, you will see that the Obama Justice Department did defend DOMA in Federal District Court. Mr. Obama's directive was regarding the appeal.
It doesn't matter......there is no "furthermore". This hypocrisy is a major issue in this country.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:10 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
Oh here we go! It's better that health care recipients are purposely oblivious to delivery methods and costs.

All they need to know is to vote D.
I have not nor have I ever promoted the (D) party. I condemn the (D)'s every bit as much as the (R)'s and once again you evade the point. You are getting good at that.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:14 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,960,195 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Our 'system' begins with a false premise ~ the supremacy of the free market ~ it's our own 'Sacred Cow' ~ most Americans are force-fed from cradle to grave:



Free Market Fundamentalism: Neoliberalism, Friedman, and the "Chilean Miracle"

The brain-washing escalated with the 'Government Is The Problem' folks who, by the way, wanted other folks to elect them to represent Government. One wonders about the self-fulfilling prophecy aspect of that canard.



How can the issues you've identified above be addressed if the 'system' (fueled by the profit-driven incentive) is "to charge as much money as possible for providing as few goods & services as possible"?

Madness.
This piece sums up well what we are dealing with:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/o...19kristof.html

Quote:
Critics storm that health care reform is “a cruel hoax and a delusion.†Ads in 100 newspapers thunder that reform would mean “the beginning of socialized medicine.â€

The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page predicts that the legislation will lead to “deteriorating service.†Business groups warn that Washington bureaucrats will invade “the privacy of the examination room,†that we are on the road to rationed care and that patients will lose the “freedom to choose their own doctor.â€

All dire — but also wrong. Those forecasts date not from this year, but from the battle over Medicare in the early 1960s. I pulled them from newspaper archives and other accounts.

Yet this year those same accusations are being recycled in an attempt to discredit the health reform proposals now before Congress. The heirs of those who opposed Medicare are conjuring the same bogymen — only this time they claim to be protecting Medicare.
The oligarchy is shameless.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:29 AM
 
51,651 posts, read 25,813,568 times
Reputation: 37889
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The Obama administration also did that.

President Obama has instructed the Justice Department to no longer defend the constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, the legal prohibition on federal recognition of same-sex marriages.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-a...r-defend-doma/

There was no condemnation of Obama for that.
This is a lie.

There certainly was condemnation of Obama. Tons of it. A quick Google search reveals thousands of hits.

He was condemned by lobbying groups as well as plenty in Congress including Sessions.

Tony Perkins, President of the Family Research Council (FRC): "This decision by President Obama and the Department of Justice is appalling. The President's failure to defend DOMA is also a failure to fulfill his oath to 'faithfully execute the office of President of the United States.' What will be the next law that he will choose not to enforce or uphold?"

President Obama Abandons Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) | Indiana Family Institute

"Outraged, GOP leaders criticized the move as an abdication of the DOJ’s duty and some urged Holder’s resignation and budget cuts to the department."

"A House resolution condemning the decision garnered 123 sponsors and co-sponsors, including then-Reps. Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, and Mick Mulvaney. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, then a Republican presidential hopeful, even briefly floated the possibility of presidential impeachment."

Rep. Jim Jordan, “The American people deserve to know that their President will uphold and defend the laws of the United States.”

"Sessions, then a Republican senator from Alabama, was among the most vocal. At a March 2011 confirmation hearing for the Solicitor General, he said that Holder should have stood up to Obama and resigned, rather that stopping his DOMA defense. “[T]he Attorney General should have told the President, ‘I know you may have changed your mind, Mr. President, but this is a statutory law passed by the Congress of the United States, it’s been upheld Constitutionally and it has to be defended."

https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-doj...-cf0966e19816/
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:31 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
This is a lie.

There certainly was condemnation of Obama. Tons of it. A quick Google search reveals thousands of hits.

He was condemned by lobbying groups as well as plenty in Congress including Sessions.
LOL, yes, I am sure Jeff Sessions disliked this action but you are well aware that is not what is being discussed.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,924,139 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Those who preach "free market" don't actually believe in them.
I defy you to name an individual or group (American) who does NOT believe in the supremacy of the free market. It's why I claimed it's our very own 'Sacred Cow'.

Definition of sacred cow = an idea, custom, or institution held, especially unreasonably, to be above criticism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
This piece sums up well what we are dealing with:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/o...19kristof.html

The oligarchy is shameless.
Seems like a pretty good piece, thanks & respect, appreciate.

Agree the oligarchy is blatantly shameless, some Americans are bafflingly cheerleading on behalf of the oligarchs.

Heard this somewhere recently & your last brought to mind. Something like, 'Republicans govern shamelessly, & Democrats are ashamed to govern. Sortof fitting here.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:26 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I defy you to name an individual or group (American) who does NOT believe in the supremacy of the free market. It's why I claimed it's our very own 'Sacred Cow'.

Definition of sacred cow = an idea, custom, or institution held, especially unreasonably, to be above criticism.
The problem is, what they defend and promote as "free market" is not free market. Trade deals is not a free market. Tariffs are not a part of a free market. Bail outs have absolutely nothing to do with a free market.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:18 AM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
I too have been responsible and carried insurance. Sorry you didn't understand the analogy using motor vehicles as an example of goods that are the financial responsibility of the end user, and aren't necessarily deserved.
If you are a Libertarian, I would forgive you. Otherwise your statements on HC policy are surprising to me based on your family's medical history and future risks. You and your wife will have 'forced' entitlement benefits through Medicare. This is nothing like auto insurance.

You're welcome.
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