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It's you nuts who don't understand. The tariffs work both ways. Both US AND Chinese consumers are paying.
It's you nutz that don't understand that China simply purchases what it needs from OTHER countries not charging tariffs on their goods.
China: Goodbye to American Soybeans, hello Brazillian soybeans.
EU: Goodbye to American corn, hello Canadian corn.
Who you buying from again? Countries you've arbitrarily imposed tariffs upon and who imposed tariffs on your crap in return your consumers are paying the tariffs because everything you're importing is being tariffed by the Donald. Other countries consumers are not paying the tariffs because they've stopped buying your chit altogeher.
Tariff wars are easy to win UNLESS you're an idiot, and go to war with EVERYBODY!
Meanwhile; who're the dummies when the country you were closest to par with on trade, and which Trump singled out for special lying insults, is NOW experiencing an amazing uptick of exports...to the U.S. along with the EU and China.
So to sum it up, its our fault that we dont have this trade surplus with China that people are so desperate to get. Blaming China for currency manipulation, subsidies or whatever is a red herring. As you say, lots of countries have trade surpluses with China, including plenty of developed countries, even though China can make pretty much everything it needs, it still imports lots of stuff from other developed countries. If you want an industrial policy, then fight for an industrial policy like Germany so we can get this trade surplus with China that you want like Germany has!
China has a tiny surplus as a share of its economy compared to other countries. Why is that, if China really is so much worse when it comes to trade than other countries? China should have a surplus of far, far higher than it does if we are to believe the trade war proponents. Instead its only a little over 1% of their GDP!
No Mike, not exactly like that. Aggressive trading policies like currency manipulation, subsidies or hidden barriers are a real concern, other nations have also complained, for instance the Europeans and the Canadians about the Chinese. Why Trump choose to go after the Canadians and Europeans, instead of working with them to try to reform Chinese trade practices (by far the biggest problem) is a good question.
What I was trying to get across was that our government tends to follow a policy of laissez faire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire , or at least usually does. That means the government tends to stay out of the private market. Meanwhile, we have signed free trade deals with other nations who interfere in the private market and indeed directly intercede, whether it is to build up their economies or provide jobs for their people.
Obviously over the long run, those companies and industries which are supported by their government are going to have a major advantage over those who are not being supported at all, even in their home market. This is not just a problem with the Chinese. The Japanese have long tried to find ways to reduce the amount of goods that American companies sell in Japan while the USA usually has not responded in kind to for the American market. It is just the scale of China and the amount of control that the Chinese communist government has, dwarfs the Japanese and other mercantilist nations.
The United States expects other governments to play by its free trade rules and stay out of the private markets. To the extent that the United States is at fault, it is that we have not responded to these unfair trading policies much much earlier.
No Mike, not exactly like that. Aggressive trading policies like currency manipulation, subsidies or hidden barriers are a real concern, other nations have also complained, for instance the Europeans and the Canadians about the Chinese. Why Trump choose to go after the Canadians and Europeans, instead of working with them to try to reform Chinese trade practices (by far the biggest problem) is a good question.
What I was trying to get across was that our government tends to follow a policy of laissez faire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire , or at least usually does. That means the government tends to stay out of the private market. Meanwhile, we have signed free trade deals with other nations who interfere in the private market and indeed directly intercede, whether it is to build up their economies or provide jobs for their people.
Obviously over the long run, those companies and industries which are supported by their government are going to have a major advantage over those who are not being supported at all, even in their home market. This is not just a problem with the Chinese. The Japanese have long tried to find ways to reduce the amount of goods that American companies sell in Japan while the USA usually has not responded in kind to for the American market. It is just the scale of China and the amount of control that the Chinese communist government has, dwarfs the Japanese and other mercantilist nations.
The United States expects other governments to play by its free trade rules and stay out of the private markets. To the extent that the United States is at fault, it is that we have not responded to these unfair trading policies much much earlier.
Explain please how your impression can be at odds with the facts.
U.S. government directly subsidizing it's agriculture to the tune of over 20 billion per year against NAFTA agreements EVERY single year that NAFTA has been in existence.
Long existing tariffs imposed against Canada's softwood lumber in spite of the U.S. commerce department stating lower stumpage fees in Canada are not a subsidy and in spite of at least two decisions against the U.S. by the WTO.
Trump shouting about 300% tariffs Canada imposes upon dairy when those are very, very infrequently imposed and only then on those portions of product entering Canada ABOVE the quotas AGREED to and would equate to "dumping of product" during the original NAFTA discussions.
When it comes to countries that should have complained about unfair trade practices. Canada did complain and through the agreed to dispute resolution process was proven correct on at least two occasions to which the U.S. ignored those results regardless and has yet to comply...…..but Canada is expected by the U.S. to agree to a dispute resolution involving only the U.S. courts.
No Mike, not exactly like that. Aggressive trading policies like currency manipulation, subsidies or hidden barriers are a real concern, other nations have also complained, for instance the Europeans and the Canadians about the Chinese. Why Trump choose to go after the Canadians and Europeans, instead of working with them to try to reform Chinese trade practices (by far the biggest problem) is a good question.
What I was trying to get across was that our government tends to follow a policy of laissez faire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire , or at least usually does. That means the government tends to stay out of the private market. Meanwhile, we have signed free trade deals with other nations who interfere in the private market and indeed directly intercede, whether it is to build up their economies or provide jobs for their people.
Obviously over the long run, those companies and industries which are supported by their government are going to have a major advantage over those who are not being supported at all, even in their home market. This is not just a problem with the Chinese. The Japanese have long tried to find ways to reduce the amount of goods that American companies sell in Japan while the USA usually has not responded in kind to for the American market. It is just the scale of China and the amount of control that the Chinese communist government has, dwarfs the Japanese and other mercantilist nations.
The United States expects other governments to play by its free trade rules and stay out of the private markets. To the extent that the United States is at fault, it is that we have not responded to these unfair trading policies much much earlier.
Lots of countries complain about other countries all the time. Thats not a proper argument. The question is why do other countries manage to compete just fine with China, they have a surplus with China, and we do not? You say its because they have "industrial policies" and are "mercantilist" while we are not, but then that is OUR FAULT, not the fault of some other country. I can find lots and lots of examples of us interfering in free markets all the time, including export bans, subsidies and barriers which other countries complain about...
The reality is that if China really was that much worse than other countries, it would have a far higher surplus than a tiny 1% of its GDP. Germany has a surplus of 8% of GDP for example. So is Germany far worse than China? The data suggest so, right? We have a six to one deficit with Vietnam and only a three to one deficit with China. Why? Trump's trade adviser said he encouraged production to move to communist government Vietnam from China. Why? So many questions people dont think through at all here.
Its pretty obvious what this is about. Labor unions have been destroyed by the ruling elite and instead of actually addressing the war on the working class and the top 0.1% picking the pockets of the regular Americans for 40 years, we are told we should blame foreigners.
No Mike, not exactly like that. Aggressive trading policies like currency manipulation, subsidies or hidden barriers are a real concern, other nations have also complained, for instance the Europeans and the Canadians about the Chinese. Why Trump choose to go after the Canadians and Europeans, instead of working with them to try to reform Chinese trade practices (by far the biggest problem) is a good question.
What I was trying to get across was that our government tends to follow a policy of laissez faire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire , or at least usually does. That means the government tends to stay out of the private market. Meanwhile, we have signed free trade deals with other nations who interfere in the private market and indeed directly intercede, whether it is to build up their economies or provide jobs for their people.
Obviously over the long run, those companies and industries which are supported by their government are going to have a major advantage over those who are not being supported at all, even in their home market. This is not just a problem with the Chinese. The Japanese have long tried to find ways to reduce the amount of goods that American companies sell in Japan while the USA usually has not responded in kind to for the American market. It is just the scale of China and the amount of control that the Chinese communist government has, dwarfs the Japanese and other mercantilist nations.
The United States expects other governments to play by its free trade rules and stay out of the private markets. To the extent that the United States is at fault, it is that we have not responded to these unfair trading policies much much earlier.
BS warmongering rhetorics....Chinese communists! You know little about china.
Lots of countries complain about other countries all the time. Thats not a proper argument. The question is why do other countries manage to compete just fine with China, they have a surplus with China, and we do not? You say its because they have "industrial policies" and are "mercantilist" while we are not, but then that is OUR FAULT, not the fault of some other country. I can find lots and lots of examples of us interfering in free markets all the time, including export bans, subsidies and barriers which other countries complain about...
The reality is that if China really was that much worse than other countries, it would have a far higher surplus than a tiny 1% of its GDP. Germany has a surplus of 8% of GDP for example. So is Germany far worse than China? The data suggest so, right? We have a six to one deficit with Vietnam and only a three to one deficit with China. Why? Trump's trade adviser said he encouraged production to move to communist government Vietnam from China. Why? So many questions people dont think through at all here.
Its pretty obvious what this is about. Labor unions have been destroyed by the ruling elite and instead of actually addressing the war on the working class and the top 0.1% picking the pockets of the regular Americans for 40 years, we are told we should blame foreigners.
As I said before, very few countries can compete with China. Most have trade deficits, and of the ones that do have surpluses, it is often from selling the Chinese raw materials or farm products then anything else.
I am anti-establishment as the next guy, you would probably know that in the past from reading my posts. In fact, I would not surprise me if a lot of these people on this thread sprouting the pro-China propaganda are either corporate free traders or even Chinese.
But there is no way this is just an attempt to blame foreigners to hide some war on unions. For one thing, the war on unions has been going on for decades. Those jobs have been going overseas. The 1% don't care, they own stocks managed by their brokers, in the multi-national companies that are doing well with free trade. Its the American workers as well as the local states and communities that have been getting the shaft.
If you really are concerned about the 1% picking the pockets of regular American for 40 years, which I believe you are from reading your posts in the past - you should ask some questions.....
- why have our leaders ignored the issue of outsourcing?
- why have our leaders encouraged a massive influx of cheap labor into the United States?
- Why does a program to replace American workers in the United States like H-1B continue to exist?
- Why did the party that claims to be the party of the poor and working class do or say nothing when factories and entire industries were moving overseas?
- Why did said party sign the same free trade deals that the traditionally business party also signed?
- WHERE was Union leadership when these free trade deals were being signed?
- Why were the same free trade deals that we signed with our Allies and fellow Democracies, given for free to dictatorships, potential enemies and countries that discriminate against women or minorities?
- FINALLY, where has the media been all these decades? Why are these issues not being discussed on a regular basis or even an occasional basis?
As I said before, very few countries can compete with China. Most have trade deficits, and of the ones that do have surpluses, it is often from selling the Chinese raw materials or farm products then anything else.
I am anti-establishment as the next guy, you would probably know that in the past from reading my posts. In fact, I would not surprise me if a lot of these people on this thread sprouting the pro-China propaganda are either corporate free traders or even Chinese.
But there is no way this is just an attempt to blame foreigners to hide some war on unions. For one thing, the war on unions has been going on for decades. Those jobs have been going overseas. The 1% don't care, they own stocks managed by their brokers, in the multi-national companies that are doing well with free trade. Its the American workers as well as the local states and communities that have been getting the shaft.
If you really are concerned about the 1% picking the pockets of regular American for 40 years, which I believe you are from reading your posts in the past - you should ask some questions.....
- why have our leaders ignored the issue of outsourcing?
- why have our leaders encouraged a massive influx of cheap labor into the United States?
- Why does a program to replace American workers in the United States like H-1B continue to exist?
- Why did the party that claims to be the party of the poor and working class do or say nothing when factories and entire industries were moving overseas?
- Why did said party sign the same free trade deals that the traditionally business party also signed?
- WHERE was Union leadership when these free trade deals were being signed?
- Why were the same free trade deals that we signed with our Allies and fellow Democracies, given for free to dictatorships, potential enemies and countries that discriminate against women or minorities?
- FINALLY, where has the media been all these decades? Why are these issues not being discussed on a regular basis or even an occasional basis?
Your concerns ring hollow. Its well known that Wall Street have written our trade laws for decades. But Trump isnt addressing that at all. He is busy destroying labor unions together with the GOP. He is not inviting the labor unions to write new trade deals with Mexico or Canada. His administration is full of Wall Street big shots. So obviously, the worker is not what concerns him.
You still fail to explain why China has such a tiny surplus compared to other countries, of just above 1% of GDP if its so much worse when it comes to trade than other countries. How does that make sense? China's surplus should at least be as big as Germany at 8%, but its nowhere near that. The fact that we have a much higher relative trade deficit with Vietnam is telling, especially since Trump's adviser called for production to be moved to Vietnam. That should tell you everything we need to know about his concern for the American worker.
The reality is that after 40 years of wars against the working class, where both parties have run into the arms of the top 0.1%, we are now entering the phase where foreigners and minorities will be blamed. The workers are getting shafted. Higher import taxes, massive tax breaks for the Wall Street big shots that have written all our trade deals, and further destruction of labor unions and packing the courts with corporate judges.
The reality is that after 40 years of wars against the working class, where both parties have run into the arms of the top 0.1%, we are now entering the phase where foreigners and minorities will be blamed. The workers are getting shafted.
This. And I don’t see a way out, the shifting of blame has been too effective. We literally have people tearing each other apart fighting for scraps, pointing fingers at each other while the super rich get even richer. Meanwhile, the cost to build a decent life has skyrocketed while creditialing (and the debt required to earn those credentials) has exploded - and people are merrily supporting changes that will make the problems even worse.
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For one thing, the war on unions has been going on for decades. Those jobs have been going overseas. The 1% don't care, they own stocks managed by their brokers, in the multi-national companies that are doing well with free trade. Its the American workers as well as the local states and communities that have been getting the shaft.
