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this is not just about insurance...btw insurance is not care
singlepayer??? you (if you pay taxes), cant afford it
and if you are meaning medicare for all...that's NOT singlepayer
many if not most conservatives/republicans would be all for singlepayer....if, if two questions could be answered
1. can you guarantee the level/quality of care...because we have seen the "Dept of Health horror clinics", and the all too many times we are reminded of the lack of quality from the VA
2. and the second, but probably most important question....How will we pay for it???
TRUE singplepayer...100% paid by the federal government, no copays, no deductibles.. to cover 323 million people will cost over 5.75-6.25 trillion for the first year, with each and every years the cost increasing with inflation
non-singlepayer "medicare for all", which is a 75/25 government insurance, which you not only have to buy supplemental insurance (or just pay the remainder out of pocket), but you also have copays will cost about 4 trillion
our current budget is about 3.8 trillion but our current revenue is about 3.3 trillion...about a half a trillion deficit.....of that 3.8 trillion dollar budget the federal government budgets about 1.8 trillion for mandatory health care (medicare,medicaid, va)
so where are you going to get the additional 3 to 6 trillion dollars to pay for some kind of singlepayer or medicare for all????
taxing the rich to death....well that will cover the first year...then what, when there are no more rich to tax.....
we have 330 million people here in the USA, yet less than 1/4 are tax payers
2. we (the taxpayer) cant afford any type of singlepayer or even medicare for all
singlepayer is NOT sustainable at any level when you are talking about 330 million patients, and less than 70 million taxpayers
they (the government) cant lower much..the best the government could do is lower some prescription medicines
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even an American resource
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
things are expensive
for example the average hospital uses a lot of electricity...about 500,000 a month...that's over 6 million dollars in electric costs yearly.....you are not going to cut that piece of overhead
when you go to the local doctor and pay him/her 100..its not 100 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS
they have lots of overhead costs:
rent/lease/mortgage
property taxes
electric costs
equipment costs(and many pieces of equipment are not even made here)
cleaning costs
supply costs
personnel costs
etc
singlepayer will not control these costs
medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)
want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-25,000 a year.....
meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 45-72,000 in the usa……
FranceRegistered Nurse (RN) Salary (France)....average 22,000 euro (about 25,000 dollars us)
USARegistered Nurse (RN), Emergency Room Salary ....average 63,000 dollars
Professional Nurse Average Salary Income - International Comparison
so what is it that singlepayer supporters 'think' or 'believe' we will be able to negotiate ??? medicines maybe....salaries not likely...other supply costs not likely.....property taxes and overhead...not a chance
UHC (medicare for all) which is not a singleplayer , or actual singlepayer would cost between 4 TRILLION (a 75/25 medicare insurance) and 7 trillion (100% coverage for 330 million) ANNUALLY.....and will INCREASE everyyear...the taxpayers cant afford that
so where are you going to get the additional 3 to 6 trillion dollars to pay for some kind of singlepayer or medicare for all???? some magical unicorn and rainbow money tree??
Yes, medicare is single payer. The government pays. You can have co-pays, deductibles, and supplental policies with single payer.
Still with the electricity and other overhead? Still think they make electricity by putting people on treadmills in UHC countries?
Nursing salaries in the US and Canada are similar.
The whole dealing with insurance companies is insane. Heck, even if you are paying for it you still have to pay a deductible and HOPE your insurance covers whatever it is you need done. This is insane! From birth, everyone should automatically have all the access one needs without having to pay a dime. Every person should be able to walk into any hospital whenever and get whatever procedure/surgery etc. is needed without paying anything. We certainly could do it if we stopped all these stupid wars that our politicians constantly jack off to while watching us kill innocent men women and children and destroying everything.
Other than greed, is there any good reason we can't shut down all these health insurance companies and just have the govt itself foot the bill for every persons healthcare needs? God forbid rich people only have 50-100K to live off of compared to millions/billions.
The current healthcare system in the US will continue on until it can't. When the country can no longer afford the healthcare system that it has. At that point changes will be made, like it or not they will be made.
Medicare today is expensive. OTOH it now only covers the oldest and sickest. The cost of covering those age 35 is vastly cheaper than coverage for those age 70. On average, a variation of Medicare for all would be much cheaper than current Medicare.
Winston Churchill once said something like, you can depend on Americans to do the right thing after they have exhausted every other possibility.
We are currently at the stage of exhausting every other possibility re healthcare before reaching the point of finally doing the right thing.
Couple things have to happen for "everyone" to contribute.
Healthcare ONLY value added tax on consumer spending. Won't cover the grey and black markets, but new goods and hired services can add the VAT. Since grey/black market is exempt, the VAT would need to be around 10% just for initial, rosiest colored lens estimated annual costs.
Repayment/forgiveness for all student loan debt accrued by anyone who needed loans for medical education, since the new influx of providers that is coming in the next few steps will vastly increase supply, but also essentially make all providers government employees, many of whom will make substantially less for their work than they would in the private market. Probably want to add to the VAT to fund this.
Government sponsored program to pump out the providers needed to satisfy the infinite demand that "free" healthcare will generate. Add the costs of education, training, entire new schools of medicine, nursing, etc to the VAT.
Need to account for the 50-~1200% price increase for every finished good associated with healthcare, based on how inflation works for all goods connected with government departments that are authorized under proprietary contracts, as in the department of defense, where markups for proprietary contracts routinely runs in the 500-1500% range. Add that to the VAT.
Need to account for a whole new slush fund for Capitol Hill and K-Street, since they'll all be skimming like 25% off the top. Add that to the VAT.
Need to account for all the foul ups that will result in individual Americans aplenty seeking redress for malpractice, since AmTrak, UPS and too many other government departments are such fine predictors of the quality we can expect.
So all in all, if everyone is contributing to what full UHC would look like in America, I am thinking a VAT of around 25-30% if it is designed to ONLY fund healthcare, and that is on top of what we already "donate" to Mediwelfare and Socialist Security.
So you go to the pulpit and tell everyone in America, left, right, black, white, young, old, that their cost of living is going up 25% minimum so everyone can visit the doctor for free. Rent, food, clothing, everything...add 25% to every cost you have, because...HEALTHCARE! Be the Rep or Senator who proposes that and see how your reelection bid goes.
Propose an additional tax on top of federal, state, local, FICA, Mediwelfare, sales, gas, property, and various use taxes...of 25%. Lord knows Americans are all so happy with how much they are currently taxed, they'll all leap at the chance to vote for someone who tells them flat out it isn't enough, so pony up more.
End all wars? Cool, that pays for the first 3-6 months of the first year. Then what? Skin all the billionaires and then millionaires? OK, that might get you through the 2nd year. Now what? Nope, to fund UHC for 330 million Americans and another 30 million freeloaders (about 70% of the population of the ENTIRE European Union, btw), you need to tack on the 25-30% UHC tax onto every single thing Americans spend money on. Only way you could ever pull it off. So again, run your election campaign on the promise that if elected, you will raise everyone's cost of living by at least 25% and for that, they can see the doctor more often and for cheaper. Or sell it with your current collectivist slogans. Tell them their costs of living are going up by 25-30%, but it's all good because someone they don't know will have more free stuff than they did before, and that makes it all worth it.
Because you cannot just promise that the mythical "Someone Else" will pay. Nope, a VAT means everyone takes it in the shorts, which even SJW zealots only like in theory, and not so much when they actually get stuck with a bill. Go campaign on the lofty notions of collectivism where EVERYONE really does have to pay. Tell Democrats how their 25% cost of living increase is going to help poor Republicans who cannot afford healthcare. Tell black people how their sudden drop in quality of life is all good because poor white people can now see a doctor?
Please, run that campaign, I beg you. I want to see how enlightened America really is, as reflected in your vote totals.
Boy, that's a long post....... Did I say this is going to be a stroll in the park? You think the present system can continue forever? Folk's health insurance constantly going up, and up?
People bankrupted by ill health? Bills dropping on the mat that cannot be paid? Citizens without any cover at all because they can't afford it?
You are full of reasons it's can't be done. Well, it has been done in practically every first world country outside America. Sure, you're bigger than anyone else. The job of politicians should be finding a way to do it. Cut out the greedy insurance companies, and their shills in Washington.
Find ways to overcome the fears of the public, and find a way to finance it. We were told it couldn't be done after the war. There's no money....... the health professionals don't want it.......the well off don't want to underwrite the poor......it will cost a fortune...... can't be done. Well, it WAS done, and continues to this day.
Like many, you will always speak as you do above. How about the massive sums paid already for health care by Americans? More than anyone else in the world per head? You just don't want it, for whatever reason. Maybe you're someone with a top grade policy provided by your job? Or someone with plenty of money who doesn't give a toss for anyone else? Sound like you?
A few months ago, it looked like a war was possible with North Korea. One wrong word from Kim, and away you'd go. How much would that little excursion have cost? Always money for wars, but never money for something that actually benefits Americans. Just makes me laugh.
Boy, that's a long post....... Did I say this is going to be a stroll in the park? You think the present system can continue forever? Folk's health insurance constantly going up, and up?
People bankrupted by ill health? Bills dropping on the mat that cannot be paid? Citizens without any cover at all because they can't afford it?
You are full of reasons it's can't be done. Well, it has been done in practically every first world country outside America. Sure, you're bigger than anyone else. The job of politicians should be finding a way to do it. Cut out the greedy insurance companies, and their shills in Washington.
I understand how laws get made. By people who are elected. Go ahead and run a campaign on the truth of UHC, the VAT needed to pay for it, and what that means for everyone voting for you.
Don't insult me because I am fully aware of the political realities of the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Find ways to overcome the fears of the public, and find a way to finance it. We were told it couldn't be done after the war. There's no money....... the health professionals don't want it.......the well off don't want to underwrite the poor......it will cost a fortune...... can't be done. Well, it WAS done, and continues to this day.
The reality is America would need a VAT to pay for it. The reality of a VAT is everyone's cost of living goes up by at least whatever the VAT is. That's simple mathematics, not fear. So go sell that increase to cost of living and make sure you explain what it's for. Be as factual and truthful as possible, by all means.
The fact is, you'll be telling 90% of the people who could afford healthcare no problem that their entire life will now cost 25% more to pay for something they already purchase under their current cost of living. So you'll ask them to do the math. Subtract what they currently pay for healthcare from what a 25% increase in exactly every area of their spending life, and see if they come out ahead. They won't. So you'll need to terrify them with hypotheticals about them or their kids getting some horrid disease that will bankrupt, but for your new tax, even though most of them are covered under their current spending and cost of living.
Present your hyperbole and doomsaying and let them weigh it against their reality. See who wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Like many, you will always speak as you do above. How about the massive sums paid already for health care by Americans? More than anyone else in the world per head? You just don't want it, for whatever reason. Maybe you're someone with a top grade policy provided by your job? Or someone with plenty of money who doesn't give a toss for anyone else? Sound like you?
I pay for my healthcare just fine without a 25% increase in my cost of living across the board. Even if I eliminate my costs for healthcare completely, the 25% increase in my across the board cost of living far exceeds what my healthcare spending currently is. I am the typical voter you have to convince, and all you have for me is insults and derision. I spend maybe $2k annually on all my HC expenses, but 25% increase in my cost of living would be like $10-12k. So you want me to say yea to paying 5-6x what I do now for the same product, and your way to allay any of my concerns is to insult me? Great sales job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
A few months ago, it looked like a war was possible with North Korea. One wrong word from Kim, and away you'd go. How much would that little excursion have cost? Always money for wars, but never money for something that actually benefits Americans. Just makes me laugh.
As I said before, end every war we have going and you save enough to fund UHC in America for 90-100 days maybe. Nobody seems to know how the numbers work. You only get that savings once. The infinite demand of "free" healthcare will go on and on forever. Ending wars is not the panacea your math challenged mind seems to think it is.
I understand how laws get made. By people who are elected. Go ahead and run a campaign on the truth of UHC, the VAT needed to pay for it, and what that means for everyone voting for you.
Don't insult me because I am fully aware of the political realities of the United States.
The reality is America would need a VAT to pay for it. The reality of a VAT is everyone's cost of living goes up by at least whatever the VAT is. That's simple mathematics, not fear. So go sell that increase to cost of living and make sure you explain what it's for. Be as factual and truthful as possible, by all means.
The fact is, you'll be telling 90% of the people who could afford healthcare no problem that their entire life will now cost 25% more to pay for something they already purchase under their current cost of living. So you'll ask them to do the math. Subtract what they currently pay for healthcare from what a 25% increase in exactly every area of their spending life, and see if they come out ahead. They won't. So you'll need to terrify them with hypotheticals about them or their kids getting some horrid disease that will bankrupt, but for your new tax, even though most of them are covered under their current spending and cost of living.
Present your hyperbole and doomsaying and let them weigh it against their reality. See who wins.
I pay for my healthcare just fine without a 25% increase in my cost of living across the board. Even if I eliminate my costs for healthcare completely, the 25% increase in my across the board cost of living far exceeds what my healthcare spending currently is. I am the typical voter you have to convince, and all you have for me is insults and derision. I spend maybe $2k annually on all my HC expenses, but 25% increase in my cost of living would be like $10-12k. So you want me to say yea to paying 5-6x what I do now for the same product, and your way to allay any of my concerns is to insult me? Great sales job.
As I said before, end every war we have going and you save enough to fund UHC in America for 90-100 days maybe. Nobody seems to know how the numbers work. You only get that savings once. The infinite demand of "free" healthcare will go on and on forever. Ending wars is not the panacea your math challenged mind seems to think it is.
You say it will cost 25% VAT to pay for it. You don't know this, you just assume certain things. Especially a group of crooks in Washington skimming off the top. Who you think will be running UHC - the Mafia?
Your health system is creaking at the edges. Everybody knows it. So your answer is more of the same? Just keep flogging the American health care horse until it collapses. What you going to do then?
VAT in my country is not on all goods. So your 25% prediction on cost of living is not true. It depends what the US government decided to put VAT on. In England, there is no VAT on fresh foods. Cooked foods yes there is. But foods most people buy like meat, vegetables, fruit, and so on is zero rated for VAT.
You say a war will only fund UHC for a short period of time. OK then - how about a massive cut in money spent on your armed forces? I believe Trump has announced a $50 billion raise in cost. You think you need such massive sums spent in this way? Jesus, you could destroy the whole world many times over already. Don't you think it's a good idea to spend taxpayer money on something else than shiny new missiles, and war planes that cost billions? Don't give me the tripe there is no money for UHC in America.
Of course you pay your personal healthcare costs just fine. I never doubted it. How about the ones who can't? Don't tell me it can't be done. It can, and for less than what it costs now. A united health service, could negotiate cheaper drugs prices, and see the end of things like this.......A long video on you-tube explains how this man couldn't afford treatment, and was left in this state, until a charity for gawds sake, stepped in. He had to practically beg for help. Only in America huh?
Once some variation of Medicare for all is adopted in the US (and its inevitable), it should be voluntary. No one should be forced into it.
When (not if, when) a person does need healthcare, they go to the doctor or hospital as is the situation today. If they have enrolled in the Medicare system, no problem, they continue on with treatments. But if they are not in the system, when they run out of money they go home (perhaps with a bottle of pills labeled The Final Cure), they are on their own (taking personal responsibility and all that).
You say it will cost 25% VAT to pay for it. You don't know this, you just assume certain things. Especially a group of crooks in Washington skimming off the top. Who you think will be running UHC - the Mafia?
I've worked in the Department of Defense for a decade. I know how spending goes for non-discretionary departments that offer 10-50 year proprietary contracts to vendors. DoD gets away with it under a mantra of "defending freedom, it costs money!" Only the approved vendor can sell goods and services to US Gov, and approved vendors have no competition. Imagine what medical equipment and pharmaceuticals would cost if government is sole buyer and only one or two approved vendors can sell to them? I'll tell how it will go with two stories from my days in the military:
Story 1 - needed 200 NiCu hex head countersunk screws. Standard SAE part, average cost at the time was ~7 cents per screw. Found cheapest vendor (local hardware store), submitted request. DENIED. I needed to submit request from approved vendor. Cheapest approved vendor was more than $2 per screw. So my $1.40 request for a standard SAE part shot to over $400 because I had to use a contracted, approved DoD vendor. That's a 28,000% price increase...because "approved vendor."
Story 2 - ship sends me a solid state circuit card to repair. Check board, figure out what part is cooked. Look up part in tech manual. Just lists component. All tech manual gives me is "capacitor." No capacitance and tolerance values, no part #, nothing, just the -||- symbol and word "capacitor." So I go rooting through every source material and tech manual I can find, I contact other repair shops, etc. Finally get on call with IBM tech support, since IBM makes the card. Turns out, all the cards used in all of the SONAR, Fire Control, weapons/nav, etc systems are licensed under proprietary contract. Only IBM can repair/refurbish that card, or send us a new one. I am not allowed to make that repair, nobody but IBM is. My cost of repair - round up to $2. IBM's quote to refurbish, let's round DOWN to $800. That's a 40,000% markup...because "proprietary contract."
OK, now we already hide all kinds of bloated defense spending behind "for defending teh nation!" marketing that only like 30% of the population can even sort of rally behind. Now hide bloat and waste behind "medicinez for teh kidz!!" and see what the fuq happens to costs.
And by the way, the Mafia cannot come within the same galaxy as the government where force, violence, coercion and extortion are concerned. Nowhere freaking close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Your health system is creaking at the edges. Everybody knows it. So your answer is more of the same? Just keep flogging the American health care horse until it collapses. What you going to do then?
1/6th of our economy is not "creaking at the edges." What is so concerning to people like you who believe that is the fact that like and other good or service, it costs money. You think people have a right to it, and that right is not being fulfilled/honored. It is a good/service like any other, and nobody has a right to the goods or services produced/provided by others. Healthcare runs fine for me. When I need it, I go pay for it. Same as I do every other good or service I want or need. If I cannot afford it, I go without or find the money by sacrificing somewhere else.
You think not being able to provide supply sufficient to satisfy unlimited demand and do so regardless of price mechanisms is some wicked plot, but it's standard supply & demand model of the reality of scarcity. The only broken part of healthcare is people who think demand can be uncoupled from supply and price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
VAT in my country is not on all goods. So your 25% prediction on cost of living is not true. It depends what the US government decided to put VAT on. In England, there is no VAT on fresh foods. Cooked foods yes there is. But foods most people buy like meat, vegetables, fruit, and so on is zero rated for VAT.
Your country is 1/7th the population of the US, and your entire national budget is wildly different than ours. You also embed increased costs in other places besides your VAT, and your NHS has decision making boards on medical procedures, services and goods they simply won't authorize because of low/no ROI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
You say a war will only fund UHC for a short period of time. OK then - how about a massive cut in money spent on your armed forces? I believe Trump has announced a $50 billion raise in cost. You think you need such massive sums spent in this way? Jesus, you could destroy the whole world many times over already. Don't you think it's a good idea to spend taxpayer money on something else than shiny new missiles, and war planes that cost billions? Don't give me the tripe there is no money for UHC in America.
I am all for gutting the DoD budget, since as I note above, so much of it is spent on waste, fraud and abuse of the approved vendor and proprietary contract system. I have long been a zealous, vocal advocate of removing every single US military service member and all related material out of the EU and everywhere else we have garrisons, including closing up every base we have on any soil not inside sovereign US borders. By all means, let the EU defend themselves with exactly no help from the US. Cool. Check with Germany real quick though, since every time we suggest closing a single base in their country, they shriek like a cat with its tail in a blender. For some reason, they fear losing our taxpyer funded cntribution to their GDP. Just saying, check with other folks in the Eurozone on gutting the US military. Aslo, while checking on that, see how the rest of the Eurozone feels about us ending foreign aid entirely an also slapping up a bunch of UHC related tariffs...bcause you know...healthcare.
But again, the DoD budget going to zero would cover only about 3 months of UHC. Just reducing our wars, garrisons, etc...that would fund like 3-4 weeks maybe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Of course you pay your personal healthcare costs just fine. I never doubted it. How about the ones who can't? Don't tell me it can't be done. It can, and for less than what it costs now. A united health service, could negotiate cheaper drugs prices, and see the end of things like this.......
The ones who can't represent one vote each. The ones who can represent one vote each. Our laws are made by elected officials who have to be voted into office. About 90% of he country can afford their healthcare, and 10% can't. All get the same vote currency.
So I say again, if you think you can get 218 reps and 51 senators elected on the "everyone's costs go up because 10% cannot pay for something" platform, then start organizing and campaigning. Oh yeah, and those 269 people need to be white knight pure as the driven snow and immune to lobbying favors/cash, since the instant your "UHC funded by VAT" bill gets submitted on the floor, K-Street will swarm like locusts to make sure things go their way.
You can keep insulting me for pointing out these realities if you want. If you think that gets a UK citizen closer to foisting UHC on the United States faster, by all means, have at it. Seriously, insult away. Hold my name up as the ugliest of ugly Americans. Does that solve this aching problem that you have? Does insulting me get you closer to reshaping the US along UK-esque Fabian socialism lines?
I've worked in the Department of Defense for a decade. I know how spending goes for non-discretionary departments that offer 10-50 year proprietary contracts to vendors. DoD gets away with it under a mantra of "defending freedom, it costs money!" Only the approved vendor can sell goods and services to US Gov, and approved vendors have no competition. Imagine what medical equipment and pharmaceuticals would cost if government is sole buyer and only one or two approved vendors can sell to them? I'll tell how it will go with two stories from my days in the military:
Story 1 - needed 200 NiCu hex head countersunk screws. Standard SAE part, average cost at the time was ~7 cents per screw. Found cheapest vendor (local hardware store), submitted request. DENIED. I needed to submit request from approved vendor. Cheapest approved vendor was more than $2 per screw. So my $1.40 request for a standard SAE part shot to over $400 because I had to use a contracted, approved DoD vendor. That's a 28,000% price increase...because "approved vendor."
Story 2 - ship sends me a solid state circuit card to repair. Check board, figure out what part is cooked. Look up part in tech manual. Just lists component. All tech manual gives me is "capacitor." No capacitance and tolerance values, no part #, nothing, just the -||- symbol and word "capacitor." So I go rooting through every source material and tech manual I can find, I contact other repair shops, etc. Finally get on call with IBM tech support, since IBM makes the card. Turns out, all the cards used in all of the SONAR, Fire Control, weapons/nav, etc systems are licensed under proprietary contract. Only IBM can repair/refurbish that card, or send us a new one. I am not allowed to make that repair, nobody but IBM is. My cost of repair - round up to $2. IBM's quote to refurbish, let's round DOWN to $800. That's a 40,000% markup...because "proprietary contract."
OK, now we already hide all kinds of bloated defense spending behind "for defending teh nation!" marketing that only like 30% of the population can even sort of rally behind. Now hide bloat and waste behind "medicinez for teh kidz!!" and see what the fuq happens to costs.
And by the way, the Mafia cannot come within the same galaxy as the government where force, violence, coercion and extortion are concerned. Nowhere freaking close.
1/6th of our economy is not "creaking at the edges." What is so concerning to people like you who believe that is the fact that like and other good or service, it costs money. You think people have a right to it, and that right is not being fulfilled/honored. It is a good/service like any other, and nobody has a right to the goods or services produced/provided by others. Healthcare runs fine for me. When I need it, I go pay for it. Same as I do every other good or service I want or need. If I cannot afford it, I go without or find the money by sacrificing somewhere else.
You think not being able to provide supply sufficient to satisfy unlimited demand and do so regardless of price mechanisms is some wicked plot, but it's standard supply & demand model of the reality of scarcity. The only broken part of healthcare is people who think demand can be uncoupled from supply and price.
Your country is 1/7th the population of the US, and your entire national budget is wildly different than ours. You also embed increased costs in other places besides your VAT, and your NHS has decision making boards on medical procedures, services and goods they simply won't authorize because of low/no ROI.
I am all for gutting the DoD budget, since as I note above, so much of it is spent on waste, fraud and abuse of the approved vendor and proprietary contract system. I have long been a zealous, vocal advocate of removing every single US military service member and all related material out of the EU and everywhere else we have garrisons, including closing up every base we have on any soil not inside sovereign US borders. By all means, let the EU defend themselves with exactly no help from the US. Cool. Check with Germany real quick though, since every time we suggest closing a single base in their country, they shriek like a cat with its tail in a blender. For some reason, they fear losing our taxpyer funded cntribution to their GDP. Just saying, check with other folks in the Eurozone on gutting the US military. Aslo, while checking on that, see how the rest of the Eurozone feels about us ending foreign aid entirely an also slapping up a bunch of UHC related tariffs...bcause you know...healthcare.
But again, the DoD budget going to zero would cover only about 3 months of UHC. Just reducing our wars, garrisons, etc...that would fund like 3-4 weeks maybe.
The ones who can't represent one vote each. The ones who can represent one vote each. Our laws are made by elected officials who have to be voted into office. About 90% of he country can afford their healthcare, and 10% can't. All get the same vote currency.
So I say again, if you think you can get 218 reps and 51 senators elected on the "everyone's costs go up because 10% cannot pay for something" platform, then start organizing and campaigning. Oh yeah, and those 269 people need to be white knight pure as the driven snow and immune to lobbying favors/cash, since the instant your "UHC funded by VAT" bill gets submitted on the floor, K-Street will swarm like locusts to make sure things go their way.
You can keep insulting me for pointing out these realities if you want. If you think that gets a UK citizen closer to foisting UHC on the United States faster, by all means, have at it. Seriously, insult away. Hold my name up as the ugliest of ugly Americans. Does that solve this aching problem that you have? Does insulting me get you closer to reshaping the US along UK-esque Fabian socialism lines?
First of all, in my last post I didn't insult you. First one yes. You obviously have a vast knowledge on how things work in US government....... I don't. But, that doesn't mean health care for all can't be achieved in America. It means there isn't the will to make it happen. That isn't the same thing.
I fully agree with America withdrawing it's armed forces from countries in Europe. But be honest....... America never goes home does it? For whatever reason, that's the truth.
So, you're basically saying the MIC is so corrupt, with iron clad contracts for 50 years, and 'defending freedom - it costs money.' You're saying the people are so whipped, and scared of outside forces, that there is no way cut backs for the armed forces could ever go through. What happened to the USSR with that train of thought?
Politicians are so corrupt, bought and paid for, and scared of telling folks the truth..... that the case? Well, if that's so, and you should know, you're in deeper trouble than I thought.
You seem to place healthcare in the same box as candy. You want some, you go buy it, you can't afford it, you go without. Did you watch the video of that man who had to go without? Your mentality is like so many others here. I've got mine, **** you. That's not an insult, just stating a fact.
Instead of saying how it can't be done, maybe you need some people figuring out how it can be done. You know, a different way of thinking? You don't answer my point - if everybody else can do it, why can't America? Why is it impossible? All I'm reading in your posts is how corrupt everything is. There is no doubt some truth in it, count how many Wall Street critters were jailed after almost bringing down the economy.
You need politicians with guts, and not bought and paid for. That may be a difficult task, and it's no wonder the American people are sick to the back teeth of your politicians. You say it can't be done, I think differently.
You think your health service as it stands isn't creaking? You should have been Captain on the Titanic.
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Did I say this is going to be a stroll in the park? You think the present system can continue forever? Folk's health insurance constantly going up, and up?