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Take a look at income tax rates in any of the "socialized paradises" on the planet. Medical care is NEVER free.
Nobody claimed it was free Pretzel. It has to be funded from taxes. Oh, you used the word 'socialized.' Why do you Americans like using this word? Nobody uses it except in America.......
Paradise........ nobody claimed that either. You don't think you've been brainwashed as a child do ya?.....
Do you say 'The Russians are coming' as well? or 'Commie'? Just curious.
What you've got to think about is, can health care for all be funded for less than what it is costing right now, with many folks under insured, and some with no coverage at all? That's the important question.
I know some folks here think it's impossible, and a pipe dream. You've got to have some faith, that things can be done in a better way. Try not to be cynical. It can be done if enough good people get behind it, even though it will be difficult.
Last edited by English Dave; 06-22-2018 at 04:45 PM..
Two bits pulled from it: Based on the latest projections in the 2018 Medicare Trustees report, the Medicare Hospital Insurance (Part A) trust fund is projected to be depleted in 2026, three years earlier than the 2017 projection.
In 2017, Medicare benefit payments totaled $702 billion, up from $425 billion in 2007. How sustainable do you figure that is? Payments more than doubled in 10 years!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanny Goat
Part of the reason healthcare is so expensive is so much is done unnecessarily. Too many diagnostics, too many meds, too many unnecessary treatments. Everything is medicalized. Every bump, bruise and blister is a catastrophe that needs to be treated in the medical system's way of doing business.
I have been saying this for years!! I remain amazed how many people don't compute that simple reality. Doc's often want to sell you tests you don't need, operate when it isn't necessary, have you come back so they can check something that healed just fine. All of that ADDS UP, bigtime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Oh, you used the word 'socialized.' Why do you Americans like using this word?
Do you say 'The Russians are coming' as well? or 'Commie'? Just curious.
I know some folks here think it's impossible, and a pipe dream. You've got to have some faith, that things can be done in a better way. Try not to be cynical. It can be done if enough good people get behind it, even though it will be difficult. The rich people won't like it, and neither will their lackey's.
Because those of us in America who think realistically (as opposed to dreaming of unicorns and money falling from the sky) don't like socialism. You should have seen and met many of the lackeys on the rah-rah train for Bernie the Bolshevik. They were operating out of SELF-interest. Period.
No, to the Russians are coming; yes, to Commie's. We like them even less and don't want them to even get a toehold.
I have no doubt that there is a better way. But, we need to decide on OUR way and not simply copy another system. I think we can come up with something, as least somewhat, BETTER than the other systems. The question is whether we have the will to do it.
Two bits pulled from it: Based on the latest projections in the 2018 Medicare Trustees report, the Medicare Hospital Insurance (Part A) trust fund is projected to be depleted in 2026, three years earlier than the 2017 projection.
In 2017, Medicare benefit payments totaled $702 billion, up from $425 billion in 2007. How sustainable do you figure that is? Payments more than doubled in 10 years!
I have been saying this for years!! I remain amazed how many people don't compute that simple reality. Doc's often want to sell you tests you don't need, operate when it isn't necessary, have you come back so they can check something that healed just fine. All of that ADDS UP, bigtime.
Because those of us in America who think realistically (as opposed to dreaming of unicorns and money falling from the sky) don't like socialism. You should have seen and met many of the lackeys on the rah-rah train for Bernie the Bolshevik. They were operating out of SELF-interest. Period.
No, to the Russians are coming; yes, to Commie's. We like them even less and don't want them to even get a toehold.
I have no doubt that there is a better way. But, we need to decide on OUR way and not simply copy another system. I think we can come up with something, as least somewhat, BETTER than the other systems. The question is whether we have the will to do it.
Keep pushing for more for-profit health care and the entire system will collapse. The idea of for-profit health care is an absurdity. It will always lead to price gouging on an epic scale. "Consumers" dont stand a chance to get a good deal in such a system.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
Nobody claimed it was free Pretzel. It has to be funded from taxes. Oh, you used the word 'socialized.' Why do you Americans like using this word? Nobody uses it except in America.......
Paradise........ nobody claimed that either. You don't think you've been brainwashed as a child do ya?.....
Do you say 'The Russians are coming' as well? or 'Commie'? Just curious.
What you've got to think about is, can health care for all be funded for less than what it is costing right now, with many folks under insured, and some with no coverage at all? That's the important question.
I know some folks here think it's impossible, and a pipe dream. You've got to have some faith, that things can be done in a better way. Try not to be cynical. It can be done if enough good people get behind it, even though it will be difficult.
Because "taking our taxes" = government interference in our lives = Communism …. according to certain Americans. It's just Cold War propaganda that never really died down. "Big Business" here pointed out for decades "look at decrepit Communist economies" as pseudo-examples.
And yes, some Americans (not many, but a few) actually do follow this government interference =Communism out to its logical conclusion: Little, if any, government. They want to privatize everything, even the roads and dams and ports and such. Personally, I think they're proposal would do much more harm than good (see Somalia for details), but I do grudgingly respect them for carrying out their assumptions out as far as they can take them.
Lets assume all your numbers are true and it is that simple. On my current pay stub my employer claims they're paying about 720 a month for my insurance plan which is about as good as coverage as you can get. If we are eliminating that do I in turn get the 720 and then pay a 1% on my total income or does the company get that and I now pay 1% more for leaches coverage and also lose the excellent coverage I have now?
So you dont pay any deductible, premium or co-pay now? The employer pays 100% of everything?
If that is the case, then you should be able to negotiate higher pay with your employer when they no longer have to pay that as part of your compensation package. It also means you get more freedom to move jobs and strike out on your own as health care would not be an issue. In effect, it provides workers with more leverage.
Keep pushing for more for-profit health care and the entire system will collapse. The idea of for-profit health care is an absurdity. It will always lead to price gouging on an epic scale. "Consumers" dont stand a chance to get a good deal in such a system.
That sounds pretty dumb... Non profit hospitals don't reduce costs...
Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 06-24-2018 at 01:06 AM..
If everyone got 3 doctors visits a year and one surgery every 10 years Mandatory compliance, even if you don't need surgery of any kind, they got to cut on you.... and nothing else and nothing less, I could agree with you about everyone is receiving the same benefit.
But it doesn't work like that.
I rarely go to the doctor unless I'm on deaths door, which has only happened once in my 38 years living on my own.
My dad being military, my mom would go or have us at the base hospital monthly, if not weekly. It was free.(no, that cost was taken from my dads pay)
Everyone has the same access and coverage per the Canada Health Act. Provinces and territories must provide and cover what is in the act. They are then free to add services etc. Like Ambulance charges vary across the country for example.
Just because someone isn't using the benefit, doesn't mean they don't have it.
I too rarely have health issues and hardly use the system except for check ups. My mother on the other hand has had many major illnesses and has used the system a lot.
That sounds pretty dumb... Non profit hospitals don't reduce costs...
Quote:
A study published in the May issue of Health Affairs revealed that in 2013, seven of the top ten most profitable hospitals in the United States were nonprofit hospitals, with each earning over $163 million in profits from patient care.
The profit motive in health care of course leads to price gouging. Ripping off consumers is easy in a market where consumers are so powerless.
All countries with a national health care system have health care costs at between 9-12%. America is a huge outlier at 18% of GDP. Then we have people here who say that if we do what the rest of the world does, we would spend 35% of GDP on health care. How incompetent must we be to manage that?
Last edited by Reads2MUCH; 06-24-2018 at 01:06 AM..
In 2017, Medicare benefit payments totaled $702 billion, up from $425 billion in 2007. How sustainable do you figure that is? Payments more than doubled in 10 years!
Hmmm, $425bil doubled is $850bil. Nope, not doubled. $702bil is definitely less than $850bil. You use unicorn math?
Inflation and Medicare enrollment increases account for very large part of the increase from 2007 to 2017.
Before the ACA (Obamacare), the US healthcare system was in absolute shambles. People were going to hospital ER's in order to address routine health problems at the expense of others. This was driving up the already escalating cost of our inefficient and failed US healthcare system.
The ACA provided over 20 million Americans excellent healthcare that they previously had absolutely no access. This was indeed a vast improvement over what had previously existed.
While it's true that the ACA was no perfect, it was better and it simply needed tweaking. Twaking the ACA would have been a more imtelligent and practical approach to correcting the glitches in the ACA. To dismantle the ACA by either repealing or removing its mandatory citizen required investments is counterproductive and demonstrative of arrogant and indignant ignorance.
President Obama much preferred UHC to the ACA, but he was unfortunately opposed by many naysayers...
If Obama could have had democratic majorities in congress throughout his presidency, I have little doubt that we would now have a universal healthcare system that would be the envy of the world. The large reduction in healthcare costs, would have allowed our deficit to be reduced even more, during his tenure.
I hope the people of this country have learned their lesson and don't let the republican charlatans sabotage our healthcare, the next time around. Free college tuition is next and is entirely within our capability to provide, along with affordable housing. We can do all these things, as many other advanced countries do. How can we claim to be the greatest nation, unless we have a better quality of life?
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