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Old 06-25-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Boston
20,096 posts, read 8,998,912 times
Reputation: 18734

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
The rich and powerful are terrified of a public that can stay healthy and insured. They do what they do to cut out competition, for protection and promotion of their own and their kind. It doesn't matter how underhanded and below the belt the tactics are.

They'd love for the poor and middle classes to just die off and disappear, so they'd have everything for themselves.

To see their twisted 'logic', you have to lower your standards and ethics to their level, and then it will probably make sense.
who are these scoundrels? give us some names of the people doing this...

 
Old 06-25-2018, 02:06 PM
 
45,201 posts, read 26,417,923 times
Reputation: 24961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Well, big whoop! You just go pick out your next doctor like that, without benefit of licensing, accreditation of medical/nursing schools (since NPs were mentioned in No_Recess' post as well), or any controls at all. Might as well go back to "medicine men".
I dont see anyone advocating for no controls or no education
You realize absent guv accreditation the marketplace would provide for one or more ways to vet a doctor, or train a doctor?
Given the amount of people killed by doctors every year you might want to temper your enthusiasm for the state system of accreditation
 
Old 06-25-2018, 02:21 PM
 
13,929 posts, read 5,615,884 times
Reputation: 8597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I dont see anyone advocating for no controls or no education
You realize absent guv accreditation the marketplace would provide for one or more ways to vet a doctor, or train a doctor?
Given the amount of people killed by doctors every year you might want to temper your enthusiasm for the state system of accreditation
Indeed. Long before government took over various trade guilds, the guilds themselves did a decent job of ensuring those who claimed membership could perform to a proper standard.

It's just another thing people cannot remember having been done by anyone other than government, so they truly believe only government CAN do it.

And even in the guild or non-guild case, as No_Recess points out, it's not very difficult to find proper tradecrafters using nothing but inquiry. I use non-union contractors on my house as a matter of preference, and I seem to do fine even without any sort of government or guild certification. Particularly electrical work. I have never used union electricians, but have gotten awesome electrician services just by using Angie's List and personal referrals. Done pretty well with plumbing, general contracting and HVAC as well.
 
Old 06-25-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,694,120 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I dont see anyone advocating for no controls or no education
You realize absent guv accreditation the marketplace would provide for one or more ways to vet a doctor, or train a doctor?
Given the amount of people killed by doctors every year you might want to temper your enthusiasm for the state system of accreditation
Here are the issues No_Recess listed, though there's at least one error in bold:

Monopolistic Medical Boards...check

Limits on Nurse Practitioners...check

Restrictions on Retail Clinics...check

Onerous Licensing Requirements...check

Immigrant Doctors Required to do Residency/Licensing Again....check

Increasing the Length of Schooling and Limiting Accreditation of Medical Schools...check

It's why the American Association of Medical Colleges has predicted a shortage of 45,000 primary care physicians and 46,000 specialists by 2020


The length of medical school has been 4 years since 1893, 125 years now. https://www.encyclopedia.com/history...ical-education You guys seem to want to go back to the Dark Ages.

Now to go back to the rest:

I'm not sure what "monopolistic" medical boards are. Each state has one. What would be the point of having competing medical boards? Talk about duplication and waste of taxpayers' money! Here's what the article says: "The case of health care regulations is an interesting one, as state governments have empowered private medical boards with unilateral authority to set the rules for the medical profession, including the issuing and revoking of medical licenses. These boards effectively function like government regulatory agencies, with the important difference that they lack the opportunity for public comments, and thus are immune from any political pressure from citizens."
Huh? In point of fact, the medical boards for each state are government agencies, and they do have public members. Here is the information for my state, Colorado:
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dor...l_Program_Info

Nurse practitioners- from the article: "In response to the Affordable Care Act, many states have been loosening regulations on nurse practitioners, which is a step in the right direction, but more needs to be done if we are to truly encourage competition and increase supply. . . Midwives, physicians’ assistants, and other alternative practitioners also have a key role to play in medical care, and should be permitted to practice without physician supervision. Midwifery in particular was once a vibrant industry, that has since been crippled by costly regulations."
Actually, by 2015, when that article was written, 32 states plus DC allowed NPs to practice independently: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indi...2:%22asc%22%7DAs of 2017, it's 35 states and DC.
https://www.aanp.org/images/document...ulatorymap.pdf
While I'm all for NPs, they do not "replace" physicians, and show that the author doesn't know as much about health care as he thinks he does. As for the comments on midwives, is he recommending lay midwives, who in many states don't even have to have a high school diploma? Certified Nurse Midwives have a bachelor's degree and at least a master's in midwifery.

Retail clinics: Article says: "While pharmacists are permitted to administer injections to patients in Louisiana, the vast majority of states still have strict prohibitions on this sort of thing."
The reality is that in 2015, pharmacists could give immunizations in all 50 states.
https://www.pharmacist.com/article/p...ur-state-allow

Onerous licensing requirements: From Colorado: "minimum qualifications for physician licensure. These requirements include: proof of graduation from medical school, passage of nationally recognized exams, satisfactory completion of postgraduate education, and submission of reference letters from previous practice locations. "
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dor...g_Requirements
Doesn't sound too onerous to me! How are you supposed to "vet" a doctor w/o these kind of requirements in place?

Immigrant doctors: "Many nations other than the United States turn out qualified physicians, but American Licensing Boards do not fully recognize the credentials of doctors immigrating from abroad. This means that a fully capable physician from the United Kingdom or Germany will still have to serve a four year residency and go through the onerous licensing procedures." The author offers no evidence that the bold is true. We are just supposed to believe him.
 
Old 06-25-2018, 03:42 PM
 
3,354 posts, read 1,232,088 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Honestly, why doesn't the govt just give everyone health benefits?


Govt is the cops. They are there to protect your rights. Not to be your mother and father, and take care of your needs.

You want some group to "give" you health care? Go ahead and form one. Nobody's stopping you. And figure out where the money is going to come from. Unless you plan to force doctors, nurses, pharmaceutical companies, and support personnel to work for free. Even then, where will those medical people's food and shelter come from? Going to force contractors, builders, grocery stores etc. to also work for free to support the doctors etc.?

How exactly did you plan for ANY group to "give" you health care?

Democrats already tried that, imposing Obamacare on the rest of us. Three things resulted:

1.) Most people were stripped away from the health care plans they had and could afford, and were penalized if they didn't switch over to the govt-approved plan.
2.) Costs began skyrocketing and never stopped.
3.) People began skipping needed medical procedures because they couldn't pay the huge deductibles Obamacare forced on them. Many of them couldn't afford any medical procedures at all. While the politicians crowed "now they have medical coverage".

Are you sure you want "govt to give everybody health benefits" again? No thanks, once was plenty.
1. Fewer than 10% of pre ACA insurance in the workplace was not compliant.
2. Costs began skyrocketing long, long before ACA
3. The deductibles have been getting worse in the last two years.
 
Old 06-25-2018, 03:47 PM
 
19,387 posts, read 6,497,447 times
Reputation: 12310
Why doesn't the government just give everyone a house?
 
Old 06-25-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Why doesn't the government just give everyone a house?
Oprah-style.

And you get a house. And you get a house. And you...get a house!
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