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Hello Katarina.......Thank you for your thoughtful comments on the link, and you saying it is all BS. You have obviously thought long and hard about what the link had to say, and kept your comments brief.
Today is the 70th anniversary of the introduction into Britain of the National Health Service (NHS). This single event is the greatest social advance for my people in the history of the UK.
We do not have to worry when sick, beyond trying to get well. No fears of having to battle with insurance companies, and maybe ruinous bills to pay.
We believe in society, and not dog eat dog. Once again, thank you for your comments. I can tell money spent on your education was not wasted......
Actually, yes, I have thought hard and long about this link. I read it yesterday but chose not to respond as YOU said for us (Americans) to enjoy our special day.
In addition, I've worked in health care for 45 years, most of it in public health which is very involved in health policy and social services. Also, I've been involved with education with the League of Women Voters (this is the place where I have to say I am speaking only for myself now) for about 30 years. So no, the money on my education was not wasted, thank you very much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad
Canada has universal healthcare. The USA does not.
Canada spends 1/3 less on healthcare as a percentage of their GDP than the USA does.
Canadians live longer. Canada has a better healthcare system, and arguably better safety nets in nationwide unemployment insurance, and workers compensation plans. Both countries have challenges on other fronts, some of which Canada has better outcomes, and some the USA. But on healthcare and longevity, Canada clearly comes out on top.
I would love to see the US have a UHC. I'm not sure I'm sold on single payer in general, or something like the Canadian system in particular. It is very difficult to compare country to country. It's like comparing apples to oranges. To say Canada's health care system is "better" is a stretch. Life expectancy in Canada is 81.1 years; it is 78.7 in the US. That is a difference of 2.4 years.
I think I have it now - this all comes down to two things:
Donald J Trump is the current President of the United States
the United States does not have totally nationalized healthcare
It is these two things that keep reappearing in post after post, and it is these two things that make America "uniquely cruel" as a society.
Well, for point #1, Trump was duly elected following a process that has overseen the peaceful transfer of power in the Executive Branch for over 200 years. Every citizen of voting age was allowed to have a say, and according the written rules of the federal government and the 50 states, the president was affirmed by the US House of Representatives, peacefully, properly and according to all due electoral process.
For point #2, it's a purely subjective argument because of how each individual values the inherent tradeoff of less government intrusion equals more individual responsibility, and vice versa.
But there's no arguing with these two points.
If you believe Donald Trump is the Devil incarnate, then you do, and you are unlikely to be swayed off thinking any country that elects him is evil as well, at least those who voted for him. Why keep circling back to this point? Let's just agree that English Dave thinks Trump is the devil and so long as he is POTUS, America is evil.
If you think a wealthy nation simply must provide cradle to grave universal healthcare, then the US fails that test and is evil. Why keep circling back to this point? Let's just agree that English Dave thinks our lack of UHC is evil and so long as we don't have UHC, America is evil.
There is no "I want to know about America" or "I want to learn more about this culture that fascinates me" or any such disingenuous nonsense. It's so much simpler and is proven out over 900 posts - someone in England has a particular axe to grind on two points - Trump is POTUS and America doesn't have England's NIH and universal healthcare. Therefore, America sucks, and all discussions will eventually come back to these two central, immutable points that this one person from England will never, ever change stance on. Every tangent, every avenue, every point-counterpoint always comes back to "let's bash Trump" and "why no UHC for you America?"
Trump is president, and nothing can be done about that for 30 more months, and we don't have universal healthcare and won't for the foreseeable future. Both points are essentially moot, so a 900 post discussion about the evils of these two unchanging things seems itself moot.
Come on now, we've discussed far more than the Donald, and UHC. We've talked football and holidays also....... I don't see Trump as the devil. He is a liar and grifter who has conned his way through life. But, he is successful, and flew a plane with his name on it during the election. That impressed the rubes.
I have stated I understand why the American people voted for Donald Trump. They were sick of the status quo, and wanted something different. Well, different they've got. It will still all end in tears, and I say that with regret. I hoped somehow, this man would bring good. He has managed to inflate the economy, abuse his allies, and sucked up to America's enemies. A possible trade war will bring recession to us all. That will be the downfall of Trump, if it happens before the 2020 election. The lack of clothes on the Emperor will be revealed to us all.
We talk about UHC because America hasn't got it. There have been posters here, who have showed their true colours, and admitted they don't give a toss for anybody else but themselves, Dog eat dog, I've got mine. The link talked of these characteristics in the American psyche, and bingo, posters here have proven the link is true, in some cases.
America should be the greatest country in the world. It has everything needed to be so. Instead, the rich prosper, and ordinary taxpayers are conned into thinking ever larger amounts of their money is needed to feed the military machine. Bases around the world that never come home, and wars that never end. The American people always have to be encouraged to be frightened of somebody and something, and they never fail to take the bait. That's the truth of it.
In America live some of the finest people in the world. Hard working, and loyal to family and friends. I know, I have met some of them, and speak with one by e-mail every day. But, also many Americans are brought up to be selfish, and blind to America's faults. Ever growing tent cities show something is wrong. These people are despised, and told to buck up, and get a job. Even if the job doesn't pay enough to live. There is fear at the heart of America, covered in bravado, and a failure for self reflection. One only has to read all through this thread to see how true this is.
This doesn't mean the American people aren't good at heart. But they have voted in fools and robber barons for the last 50 years, and no doubt will continue to do so. Trump is just the worst in a poor lineup. The people they vote in seem to like wars. We got 'shock and awe' in 2003 against a country that had done nothing to America. Before that war, sanctions on the Iraqi people that left children without essential medicines. This is all forgotten, and the American people wonder why so much of the world despise them.
I hope America becomes more inward looking, and puts it's people first. Money spent on Americans. A health system that looks after all. Less money spent on weapons of war, and people lifted from despair. Some compassion for the ones who have fallen by the way. But the rich are pulling the strings, and the politicians do their bidding. Stop admiring the rich, because they're the ones saying 'don't look here..... look over there! Plus keep religion out of politics...... they are not doing God's work, no matter how many times they talk about Him.
Last edited by English Dave; 07-05-2018 at 02:11 PM..
Actually, yes, I have thought hard and long about this link. I read it yesterday but chose not to respond as YOU said for us (Americans) to enjoy our special day.
In addition, I've worked in health care for 45 years, most of it in public health which is very involved in health policy and social services. Also, I've been involved with education with the League of Women Voters (this is the place where I have to say I am speaking only for myself now) for about 30 years. So no, the money on my education was not wasted, thank you very much.
I would love to see the US have a UHC. I'm not sure I'm sold on single payer in general, or something like the Canadian system in particular. It is very difficult to compare country to country. It's like comparing apples to oranges. To say Canada's health care system is "better" is a stretch. Life expectancy in Canada is 81.1 years; it is 78.7 in the US. That is a difference of 2.4 years.
Statistically, that is a huge difference. Seriously, it is.
Yet more people come to the U.S. legally, and illegally, and desire to come to the U.S. more than any other country in the world. We are still the most free society in the world, with the greatest opportunity for advancement based on merit, not birthright. Plus we are one of the last remaining countries in the world where people have the freedom, and right to own, and carry firearms, and actually legally use them for self defense, and defense against a tyrannical government foreign, or domestic.
That natural right, guaranteed not to be infringed by government, is what keeps all our other rights secure. No other country has that guarantee. Not the UK, Canada, Australia, nor the other Commonwealth Countries. When we rebelled against the British Empire, the cruelest, colonial empire known to man, we made sure they, or anyone else could not colonize us again.
Yet more people come to the U.S. legally, and illegally, and desire to come to the U.S. more than any other country in the world. We are still the most free society in the world, with the greatest opportunity for advancement based on merit, not birthright. Plus we are one of the last remaining countries in the world where people have the freedom, and right to own, and carry firearms, and actually legally use them for self defense, and defense against a tyrannical government foreign, or domestic.
That natural right, guaranteed not to be infringed by government, is what keeps all our other rights secure. No other country has that guarantee. Not the UK, Canada, Australia, nor the other Commonwealth Countries. When we rebelled against the British Empire, the cruelest, colonial empire known to man, we made sure they, or anyone else could not colonize us again.
You think you're free? Freer than me? OK......... you keep believing that. I don't care.
Oh gawd, here come the guns. Yes you have the right to own guns. We have no interest in them. Keep worrying about that tyrannical government you will keep in line if push comes to shove. Good luck with that.
The most cruel colonial Empire ever huh? Not the way we see it, or many of those countries which have close ties with us to this day. You made sure of what? Read a history book for gawds sake. Without the French, you would have been sunk........ You've been watching too many Mel Gibson movies.......
Yet more people come to the U.S. legally, and illegally, and desire to come to the U.S. more than any other country in the world. We are still the most free society in the world, with the greatest opportunity for advancement based on merit, not birthright. Plus we are one of the last remaining countries in the world where people have the freedom, and right to own, and carry firearms, and actually legally use them for self defense, and defense against a tyrannical government foreign, or domestic.
That natural right, guaranteed not to be infringed by government, is what keeps all our other rights secure. No other country has that guarantee. Not the UK, Canada, Australia, nor the other Commonwealth Countries. When we rebelled against the British Empire, the cruelest, colonial empire known to man, we made sure they, or anyone else could not colonize us again.
I don't agree. Armed citizenry isn't the only way to overthrow a government - a government might lack the resources to prevent citizens from removing them.
Hello Katarina.......Thank you for your thoughtful comments on the link, and you saying it is all BS. You have obviously thought long and hard about what the link had to say, and kept your comments brief.
Today is the 70th anniversary of the introduction into Britain of the National Health Service (NHS). This single event is the greatest social advance for my people in the history of the UK.
We do not have to worry when sick, beyond trying to get well. No fears of having to battle with insurance companies, and maybe ruinous bills to pay.
We believe in society, and not dog eat dog. Once again, thank you for your comments. I can tell money spent on your education was not wasted......
But that’s socialism, and socialism is evil.
Here in America, we are all about freedom. We want big health insurance companies to have the freedom to charge whatever they want, and then deny payment whenever they want. We want big pharmaceutical companies to have the freedom to push dangerous drugs on the public by bribing doctors. We want healthcare lawyers to have the freedom to sell justice to the highest bidder. We want the freedom to profit off the suffering of others...that’s what America is all about.
You European sissies can have your socialized medicine. As a good American, I want the freedom to take it in the rear from a for-profit medical system. Real men take abuse from powerful people and organizations, only weak snowflakes complain about it.
I'd wager I know more about life expectancy stats than you do.
So you maintain that an 3% longer lifespan is not that significant. I think it is. I'm not going to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" argument. I was heavily involved in my jurisdiction with developing policy based on biological statistics for over 25 years, and had input at the national level. Enough said.
So you maintain that an 3% longer lifespan is not that significant. I think it is. I'm not going to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" argument. I was heavily involved in my jurisdiction with developing policy based on biological statistics for over 25 years, and had input at the national level. Enough said.
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Thank you for your thoughtful comments on the link, and you saying it is all BS. You have obviously thought long and hard about what the link had to say, and kept your comments brief.
I don't see Trump as the devil. He is a liar and grifter who has conned his way through life. But, he is successful, and flew a plane with his name on it during the election. That impressed the rubes.
