Why America is the world's most uniquely cruel society. (TV, city, anti-American)

[Phil75230]

Originally Posted by BentBow

The nation was established under the laws of nature, not men.


The weak & the freaks were culled, while the strong survived. Then came the intellectual collective Marxist movement, called Progressivism here. The 16th and 17th amendments allowed the welfare state to be established. So, the weak & the freaks drag down the species now.


Too many people don't fish under the collective quandary. They expect others to fish for them.

There is such a thing as maladaptivity, which is an adaptation that may give short-term benefits at the expense of long-term well-being. This is especially true if the trait is beneficial to the individual but detrimental to the group. I think our Stone Age survival ways of sizing up people fall into that category.

BTW, the "gladiator match" model of evolution is long discarded by evolutionary biologists. But for the sake of argument and because this model is so thoroughly impressed onto the popular consciousness, I'll argue from this basis.

Over the past 5,000 and especially 10,000 years, we humans have changed the context - from an environment in which the, absolutely only way to gather resources, survive, and procreate is to simply be physically stronger, have more animal cunning, and be less fearful than everyone else. So these types of people do have an advantage in abruptly-changing feast-or-famine environments in which our most powerful weapons and tools were fire, fishhooks, and spears with arrowheads of stone (and in a few favored locales, bronze). This is even more true if you don't have any agriculture beyond tiny garden plots, and even less if you have specialized labor, organized government, and all other things associated with a civilization.

Today, with a more or less stable food supply , organized government with professional (read: specialized) law enforcement and national defense, and with industrial mecanization, the so-called "manly" survival triats of the Stone Age, or actually the Hollywoodized caricature thereof, simply have less value than intrinsic creativity, openness to new ideas regardless of the Stone Age survival ability of the person who came up with them, trust, and cooperation. THAT is what ultimately widened the gap between survival and extinction. That is what allows us to have an Information Age, better medicines, stronger structures, machines that allow us to simply do more stuff. Hands-on physical security occupations aside (military, police, etc), Stone Age survival skills had nothing to do with letting us find a cure for cancer, build globe spanning transportation and communication networks, and precision missiles, and the Internet itself.

The problem is, we're still the same old human beings. Our biological and especially psychological evolution has not kept up with our technological development and hence our day-to-day physical environmental changes. Evolution works at a very slow, glacial, pace. That makes our old reptilian brainstem (especially its ways of sizing up another's worth) like an old established elite refusing to change with the times. Moulding individuals into the type of people who would do well in wilderness survival situations, war zones, or high-crime urban areas but woefully inadequate at fostering the creativity, trust, and cooperation needed to develop even high-level preindustrial civilizations (Ancient Rome, China of 1000 years ago, etc.), much less an Industrial Era one and still less an Information Age one. The higher our level of technology gets, the truer this becomes.

In fact, one-on-one dog-eat-dog competitions akin to a WWE Battle Royal actually destroy security and reverse progress. The need to always "watch your back" diverts time and energy away from actually productive tasks, and so actually causes the very societal weakness which BB seems to want to purge.

Given all this, BB is simply trying to shoehorn the rules for survival for one type of physical environment into a totally different one. And that, certainly, is one way to ensure we go extinct much quicker than would have occurred naturally.

[English Dave]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bully

If you lefties are lucky, Foreigner Dave will pat you on the head and call you "mate". Then you can go tell all your friends at the cafe(I heard there's this new vegan place downtown) that a European person gave you his approval. All you had to do in return was to sell your country out to a foreigner.

Good morning Uncle Bully mate........ Nobody here is selling America out. There are some angry folk like you, but also some real good posts from thoughtful, interesting people.

Must be your bedtime by now. Have you had your nice cup of tea to help you sleep? It'll all look better in the morning.

[Fifty Seven]

Originally Posted by English Dave

Good morning Uncle Bully mate........ Nobody here is selling America out. There are some angry folk like you, but also some real good posts from thoughtful, interesting people.

Must be your bedtime by now. Have you had your nice cup of tea to help you sleep? It'll all look better in the morning.

You got'em grabbing at your zipper "mate". Be gentle with'em.

[English Dave]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bully

You got'em grabbing at your zipper "mate". Be gentle with'em.

Now, that made me laugh out loud. You're all right Uncle Bully.......

[English Dave]

Originally Posted by craigiri

Social science has largely proven this to be the case now.

We have to remember that most everyone can be "turned cruel" in the case of the Stanford Prison Experiment, etc - so we start from there and have to assume that good behavior is largely a function of the society, civilization and education (and happiness, of course!)...

When you think about GWB - that after two wars, the worse recession since the Great Depression and all the other lies and - basically - being intellectually unfit for the office....at the end, 28% of Americans still approved of him!

So there is no such thing as a "common outlook" here when it comes to what we consider to be competent or good leadership.

Americas high "religiosity" is also proof of authoritarianism. Same goes with "winner take all" attitudes in business and politics. No compromise - you win or lose. Either you are "saved" or you go to hell.

Both Britain and the US (and many other places) also suffer from excess militarization - which, in fact, often turns segments of the population into authoritarians. Even child (and adult) abuse will tend to turn the victims and perps toward more authoritarian behavior.

I've seen the cruel side. As a 16 year old I was caught with some pot...and put into a cell where the walls were covered with scratched messages about the rapes that occurred in that room. I was also personally threatened and very lucky that it didn't happen. But it DID happen to a lot of people.

I know some folks who were locked up years ago for growing pot. They survived (or I think they did) their couple years due to some low level of "fame" they had (and family, and media attention), but they said the saying in the (TN) prison was "feces on my **** or blood on my shank (I softened the saying)". Americans dislike having to think about this being a "normal" thing, but it is.

That's cruel...that we allow ourselves to overlook this and finance it with our tax money.

BUT, I can't speak for other societies...don't know enough about them. I do know my Irish friends didn't have a good life. Our family friend there told me every single young male she knew (including her family) spent time in the British-run gulags.

At the same time I think we have the largest percentage of our population locked up...than any other country on the planet.

Among Western Countries I think the US and the Brits have the largest income inequality...so, again, we learned from the best! Corporate control....just like the Mayflower and Jamestown...

Thank you for this post that got me thinking last night, but too late to reply to it properly.

A strong leader always has an appeal to some people. I well remember Maggie Thatcher having herself a war in the Falklands back in 1982. She had been in power for three years, and was hated by a large percentage of the British. Unemployment rates had doubled in the three years she had been PM. It was looking like she would be removed from power at the next election within two years. She had her war, ordered the sinking of an Argentine battleship full of young conscripts. The 'Sun' newspaper's headline the next day, just said 'Gotcha' with a photo below of the sinking ship. She won the war, and then won the election by a landslide. The British love a war, especially one we win.

George W Bush will always remain in my memory. The image of him sat in that class of children after being told that 9/11 was in progress was telling. The idiot was waiting to be told what to do. They flew him round America for a while to protect him. I also remember the day after 9/11 only one plane was flying, and that was the one removing the Bin Laden family from America. The Bush family got their close business partners out of harms way. Shame the harms way was the FBI wanting to question them.

Bush had his war, 'shock and awed' the Iraqi people, declared mission accomplished, and then won reelection in 2004. Same thing as Thatcher. Americans like a war as well. For his farewell, he begged for money to save the rich, sorry, I mean the economy, as Wall Street laid an egg.

I believe you are correct in that many Americans like authoritarian figures. This is why Trump seems to be climbing in the ratings, which no doubt is pleasing him. The more he lashes out at allies, and insults other leaders, the more some seem to see him as a leader. In fact, he is a sociopathic nutcase, with a very short attention span. But boy, he sure shows 'em who's boss huh?

America's war on drugs has been a strange one. Locking people up for using substances like a plant. Well after all, 'reefer madness' originated in America. The lesson of alcohol prohibition almost a 100 years ago was forgotten. Billions of taxpayer dollars thrown down the drain, and still the refrain is 'lock them up' from some. Like you say, these shouts while having the largest jail population percentage wise in the world. Folks have to be punished, then punished some more. Righteousness mixed in with religion. A potent brew.

The Irish situation you mentioned is too complex to talk of here. But, if you think the British were wrong in our dealings with the Irish during the so called 'troubles', go read the thread about Ireland in the UK outpost of city-data. The sheer madness is there for everyone to see. I was in the British army during the early days of the 'troubles.' Put me off the Irish for life. At least the ones who live on that island.

You are right the US and the UK have the largest income inequality. We have similar faults and problems in some ways. What we don't have here, is the self righteous religious right found in America. Very few of us here are controlled by what imaginary sky gods tell us to do.

[Bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by Highpointer

The United States is the greatest country in the world. That is an undeniable fact that is inarguable.

and you need to travel more if you believe that.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by English Dave

Many Americans posting here seem to want to talk about anything but America. What you state is the truth, but some just want to get angry, and go on about 'freedom' and the American way.

You, and other thinking citizens know something is seriously wrong with American health care. There has to be a better way than the current system.

America has the capacity to be the greatest country on the planet, in regard to looking after it's people. But we get shouts of 'socialism', and decent men like Bernie Sanders gets called 'communist.' Americans have got to stop admiring the rich, and thinking sociopaths like Donald Trump are going to bring back the good times.

Craigiri, I haven't forgotten your post,and will reply tomorrow.

Sanders wouldn't endorse his own son. He said he doesn't like "dynasties". Interesting, as the party whose primaries he chose to run in has a YUUUUGE dynasty.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by normstad

I know that mantra keeps getting repeated over and over again, but personally, I think Americans are myopic if they think that they have the patent on freedom.

I'm a Canadian snowbird, living 6 months in Canada, and 6 months in Florida, driving through various States on my way down. From what I see, Americans have many LESS freedoms than we do as Canadians. Yes, I know all about the 2A, but if that is how you define freedom, you are wrong.

Let me give you a couple of examples. In Canada, I needed to put in a new hot water heater, powered by natural gas. I went an bought one, installed it, tested it, had a friend who was a gas fitter test my test, end of story.

I needed to install a hot water heater in my condo in Florida.

First of all, I needed an electrical permit. Then a permit for the hot water heater. Then I needed to have licensed contractors install it, first the heater, and the the electrical. In fact, a couple of places would not sell me one unless I showed the permits.

Well, I'm not used to that intrusion on what I do on MY property. I was able to buy one, I did all the work myself, work I am perfectly capable of doing, and complained to my neighbors about the issue. They kind of laughed, and said, "Get used to it, that's the way it works here", and then asked me to help install theirs. (no charge, I'm not allowed to work in the USA).

I won't even get into the issues of over-policing that I see in many States.

No, you do not have freedoms one can't fathom. Not even close. The USA is a great country, and I like Americans, but citizens should not claim about things they don't know. Sorry.

And what do you have to do to get a water heater installed in Canada?

Originally Posted by English Dave

Your post caught my eye. In fact, widened them considerably.

'The weak and the freaks were culled.' Wow. Does that include the native American people?

I believe Bent Bow (the poster you were responding to) is a Native American.

[English Dave]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

I believe Bent Bow (the poster you were responding to) is a Native American.

If so, then what he had to say is even more shocking.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by craigiri

Right - and 90% of the population of Scandanavian countries are left wing and very decent people. Heck, a "conservative" I know in Portugal would be considered far left here...and he is a very decent (and wealthy) person.

How the heck does caring about society (that's what a democratic socialist is) or being "liberal" (tolerant, believing in human rights and forging ahead as we learn) made someone indecent?

I would say the truth is the complete opposite...heck, if Jesus were around today you'd give him the double Cross due to his socialist and left-wing views.

Your comment is the perfect example of backwards bizarro world that the OP and article are getting at. Up is down, bad is good, corrupt is great, etc.

Nothing wrong with caring for your fellow citizens. In fact, it's probably the highest calling a person can have.

Jesus was not involved in politics. He said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now, My kingdom is not of this realm."