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Old 07-13-2018, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
Corporations control the government.
That means the legislature does what ALEC tells them to do

The private prison lobby pays the lawmaker to arrest pot smokers.

That's what happens when you have small government

USA 2018 is libertarian Paradise
Sounds like you're arguing against the government to me. "Politicians sell off their power"...yeah, they always have and always will..."So let's give them more power to regulate"...
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:35 PM
 
20,720 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
Corporations control the government.
That means the legislature does what ALEC tells them to do

The private prison lobby pays the lawmaker to arrest pot smokers.

That's what happens when you have small government

USA 2018 is libertarian Paradise

How? You keep repeating it. What's your solution? A law to make pot smoking illegal sounds like big da guberment to me.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:39 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 639,031 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
How? You keep repeating it. What's your solution? A law to make pot smoking illegal sounds like big da guberment to me.

my solution would be states rights with government regulations controlled by democracy not by corporate money power.

I would have elections where lawmakers whould have to run for office every few years and if the public wasn't happy with the job they did the public could elect someone else thus guaranteeing no monopoly could occur,

Periodic elections by definition negates MONOPOLY...
you know like the MONOPOLY problems we have with PRIVATE INDUSTRY!!!

understand that with the PRIVATE SECTOR your vote means nothing, when the PRIVATE SECTOR runs your government your vote may replace the now powerless politicians but the SAME PRIVATE SECTOR MONOPOLY REMAINS.

I would make it a felony for any lawmaker to take so much as a cup of coffee from a special interest group.

The problem we have in America right now is it the deregulation of the free market

The free market is controlling everything NOT the people

the special interest groups like The Petroleum Lobby and the private prison Lobby bribe the lawmakers with free money using the principles of the free market where the big bad evil government cannot control who you bribe

the corporations right to "free speach" TRUMPS people's rights to democracy.

we are living in a Libertarian Paradise now that's what's wrong with the country.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:48 AM
 
20,720 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
[quote=Boer;52489163]my solution would be states rights with government regulations controlled by democracy not by corporate money power.
[quote]

OK, I can agree with that. State and local government should be our main form of government. I compute size of government differently. The US Federal government at 20% of GDP is larger than state government at 50% GDP in terms of size and scale. Problem is that its in our law already and yet people just assume the Federal government should do it all.



Quote:
I would have elections where lawmakers whould have to run for office every few years and if the public wasn't happy with the job they did the public could elect someone else thus guaranteeing no monopoly could occur,
People keep voting in the incumbents...Why? I have no idea.



Quote:
Periodic elections by definition negates MONOPOLY...
you know like the MONOPOLY problems we have with PRIVATE INDUSTRY!!!

understand that with the PRIVATE SECTOR your vote means nothing, when the PRIVATE SECTOR runs your government your vote may replace the now powerless politicians but the SAME PRIVATE SECTOR MONOPOLY REMAINS.

I would make it a felony for any lawmaker to take so much as a cup of coffee from a special interest group.
You have to make the punishment fit the crime because people will just refuse to enforce it.


Quote:
The problem we have in America right now is it the deregulation of the free market
No it isn't. Regulation is one of the main tools of monopoly power. The big banks use paperwork and regulation to kill the small banks and so on.

Quote:
The free market is controlling everything NOT the people
No it isn't. A free market mean there is no control.

Quote:
the special interest groups like The Petroleum Lobby and the private prison Lobby bribe the lawmakers with free money using the principles of the free market where the big bad evil government cannot control who you bribe
The petroleum lobby are the people that buy SUVs and gas guzzlers. What makes you think the oil companies are running everything? There is a lot of competition in energy. Stop buying it if you don't like it. There is no way to know if a barrel of oil is capital or rent unless you know the source. Easy oil is more of a property of the state. Deep sea oil is a product of capital. Treating those two equality is insanity.



Quote:
the corporations right to "free speach" TRUMPS people's rights to democracy.
Trump is not the one attacking free speech these days. The media companies are. So is big tech.

Quote:
we are living in a Libertarian Paradise now that's what's wrong with the country.

No we are not. You are essentially living in some political mythology some one fed to you. Why don't you go back and read some political economy works in the 19th century before the propaganda era ? They actually just say it straight. Anything by the 20th century was already being manipulated by big money. When John D was handing out dimes ...Yeah that's when Standard Oil was a monopoly and when propganda really started to take off. There is no energy monopoly anymore. Between Iran, Russia, US fracking and so on its not happening.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:24 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 639,031 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Sounds like you're arguing against the government to me. "Politicians sell off their power"...yeah, they always have and always will..."So let's give them more power to regulate"...
... I'm arguing against the radical change in the government since the 1980s

Most experts agree that's when the corporate influence took over our politicians

Now we have ALEC and "corporations are people" (citizens united)

democracy works just fine
you just can't let corporations bribe the politicians to do their bidding...it's that simple

Don't junk the wagon because it got dirty, clean the wagon
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:38 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
... I'm arguing against the radical change in the government since the 1980s

Most experts agree that's when the corporate influence took over our politicians

Now we have ALEC and "corporations are people" (citizens united)

democracy works just fine
you just can't let corporations bribe the politicians to do their bidding...it's that simple

Don't junk the wagon because it got dirty, clean the wagon
how do you propose to "clean the wagon"?
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:32 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 639,031 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
how do you propose to "clean the wagon"?
Easy

Any elected person, politicians, lawmaker take as much as a cup of coffee from a special interest lobbyist or any noun=felony

Knowingly hiring one illegal person=felony

So simple
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:14 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 639,031 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
Easy

Any elected person, politicians, lawmaker take as much as a cup of coffee from a special interest lobbyist or any noun=felony

Knowingly hiring one illegal person=felony

So simple
When I was a park ranger it was considered unethical for me to take even a plate of food from someone having a BBQ in the park however our politicians can take phenomenal amounts for CASH from all kinds of shady sources

AMAZING!!!

ALEC=
A...american=USA
L....legislative=LAW
E....exchange=SALE
C....council=GROUP
https://youtu.be/zE-trR3-kB8

https://youtu.be/NXUPDAMc_6o

Wilco
Tango
Foxtrot
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Old 08-06-2018, 01:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,865,154 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
I am mostly politically neutral...I love firearms but I would never tell a woman what to do with her pregnancy, I believe in legalizing all drugs but I oppose welfare of any kind, a lot of my friends tell me I'm a libertarian but I can't get comfortable with this whole "small" government theory...

what exactly does that mean?

who has the power when it comes to small government theory?

I love states rights, I think that is the best way to go under all circumstances, the federal government should help the states enforce the laws they have but who has the power when we're talking about a small government.

I believe the USA is in free fall, big stock market gains but the middle class is shrinking and living off credit, I believe Trump and Regan were/are TERRIBLE... trickle down economics is just taking the filter out, sure it runs stronger but is way more likely to fail/blow up. Why run your heater with a filter, pull the filter out and the system runs stronger.


I believe 3 things have done the majority of damage to the USA,

#1 DRUG WAR (CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE)

#2 PRIVITAZITION (FOR PROFIT PRISON?)

#3 FREE TRADE (REMEMBER ROSS PEROT)

Who has the power in "small government theory" not corporations who give money to politicians???
We don't have free trade, it's managed trade.

1. A large powerful central authority

Everything else is way below that
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:42 AM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
Easy

Any elected person, politicians, lawmaker take as much as a cup of coffee from a special interest lobbyist or any noun=felony

Knowingly hiring one illegal person=felony

So simple
So the bribes will just become covert (as many are already). Im always astounded by the naïveté of those who think a few rules will stop the bribery and selling off of our freedoms.
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