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I don't know or really care....the change since the 60's is not endemic to blacks. What is clear is that prior to the 60's the rate for blacks was already 7 times what it was for whites. Maybe the change in gender roles in the US...with women entering the workforce in record numbers and less of the need for males as providers is what happened post 60's.
Note, which I think you already mentioned - OOW birthrates are not detrimental to blacks from an economic or criminal perspective.
Our educational achievement has increased since the 1960s. Crime has decreased as well since heights in the 1970s.
As you mentioned earlier - if OOW birthrates was something that was a direct/major factor in economic conditions - then whites would be worse off than they are today. Also blacks would never have gotten better on nearly every socio-economic factor since the 1960s.
Both you and I know that racism and oppression is what caused our ancestors to suffer prior to 1970. They chose to ignore it because they are wilfully ignorant.
It makes no sense to speak to people who are stuck in a psychological idea that blacks are inferior and who seek to ignore the fact that racist oppression does have a factor in the present condition of us as a demographic. We know that and it is not important IMO for these weirdos to not accept it. They have way worse problems than us (mind problems lol).
I'll further note on OOW births - that a child being born OOW was never a huge negative thing for black people in other cultures aroudn the world and the African continent. Nor was it a huge negative thing for indigenous Americans. On the contrary a woman not having a child at all was always considered as a negative aspect of womanhood since being a woman means having the ability to produce children - which in most African cultures and indigenous tribes is something that is a gift and blessing to that community.
The whole idea of "traditional marriage/coupling" being necessary for children to be reared in is a European/white patriarchal idea that we should not look at to define ourselves. Black Americans have always had more OOW births as you know and which you have referenced in this thread, however, as mentioned above - we have always gotten better. We have very unique, tight knit families historically that do not need to be defined by the white patriarchs definition of what a "family" is or what a mother/father's role should be. Black mothers have always been more financial providers versus white women/mothers (even in traditional African and indigenous tribes - women were often major players in markets and agriculture - this has always been the case for black women in America in particular). Black fathers have always had more of a hand in the rearing of their children (hands on) versus white men/fathers (even in traditional African tribes - men were often more involved in the lives of their children - especially young boys/men in order to guide them to manhood - which was not defined all the time on a white patriarchal definition of "success" to be a man). That was a strength of ours that the white supremacist/patriarchal minded society was successful IMO when they did "studies" to pit black men and women against each other in the 20th century that made us question our historical culture and background and judge it as being worse than whites.
They judge us by their standards and after obtaining success in our civil rights struggles many of our men/women did the same thing - tried to define ourselves and uphold a white patriarchal standard. This is a detriment to us. We should not try to be like them. They do not have the history we had nor the experiences and contrary to what they believe, our culture is much more focused on fairness, opportunity, resilience, tolerance, etc.
St. Louis
Detroit
Baltimore
Memphis
New York City
Kansas City
Cleveland
Milwaukee
Oakland
Washington DC
Newark
Philadelphia
New Orleans
Buffalo
and on and on and on
Can you fathom how many crimes have been committed in these cities over the last 60 years to the present day if you count all the homicides, rapes, assaults, burglaries and thefts? It will make your head spin to think about it.
All of those cities - like Chicago - crime rates have fallen over the past 40 years to record lows.
Do you want me to focus on the totality of crime or the fact that in those areas - and all over the country - crime has decreased.
Also, you ignored my question about the 175 year period where white Americans raped, tortured, esnlaved, killed, mobbed etc., the black population. This did not decrease substantially (white violence against black people) until the mid 20th century and only because of black activism (a cultural tenet of ours) which broadcast to whites how "uncivilized" they were while claiming to be superior.
Why do you ignore white violence for 175 years but want me to take specific note to crime in urban areas (none of which I live in) for the past 60?
Do you not see hundreds of years white violence as important as black criminals from the past 60 years (and note that in many of those areas you cite, much of the crime in the 20th century was committed by whites - in 1919 there was something called the "Red Summer" where hundreds of black people were mobbed and killed by whites in a 2 month period - I'm supposed to ignore that and instead focus on individual crimes of black people.....very strange of you - facts are that black Americans have never systematically attacked white people via a mob - never after the antebellum period and during that period - I can understand why some did - Nat Turner comes to mind. I do care about crime in my area and around the country but if crime rates are falling - why should I say that black people are to blame for crime)?
It started when we stopped ruling over them with an iron fist. Same thing happened in South Africa with the end of apartheid and then the crime rates sky rocketed. The same reason the Middle East has so many dictators. Same thing happens in black neighborhoods with high crime. Police aren’t allowed to police aggressively because its racist, then crime goes up. Some people have to be ruled over with fear and an iron fist to create order.
I can't believe someone is writing this kind of nonsense in 2018... But here we are.
Note, which I think you already mentioned - OOW birthrates are not detrimental to blacks from an economic or criminal perspective.
Our educational achievement has increased since the 1960s. Crime has decreased as well since heights in the 1970s.
As you mentioned earlier - if OOW birthrates was something that was a direct/major factor in economic conditions - then whites would be worse off than they are today. Also blacks would never have gotten better on nearly every socio-economic factor since the 1960s.
Both you and I know that racism and oppression is what caused our ancestors to suffer prior to 1970. They chose to ignore it because they are wilfully ignorant.
It makes no sense to speak to people who are stuck in a psychological idea that blacks are inferior and who seek to ignore the fact that racist oppression does have a factor in the present condition of us as a demographic. We know that and it is not important IMO for these weirdos to not accept it. They have way worse problems than us (mind problems lol).
I'll further note on OOW births - that a child being born OOW was never a huge negative thing for black people in other cultures aroudn the world and the African continent. Nor was it a huge negative thing for indigenous Americans. On the contrary a woman not having a child at all was always considered as a negative aspect of womanhood since being a woman means having the ability to produce children - which in most African cultures and indigenous tribes is something that is a gift and blessing to that community.
The whole idea of "traditional marriage/coupling" being necessary for children to be reared in is a European/white patriarchal idea that we should not look at to define ourselves. Black Americans have always had more OOW births as you know and which you have referenced in this thread, however, as mentioned above - we have always gotten better. We have very unique, tight knit families historically that do not need to be defined by the white patriarchs definition of what a "family" is or what a mother/father's role should be. Black mothers have always been more financial providers versus white women/mothers (even in traditional African and indigenous tribes - women were often major players in markets and agriculture - this has always been the case for black women in America in particular). Black fathers have always had more of a hand in the rearing of their children (hands on) versus white men/fathers (even in traditional African tribes - men were often more involved in the lives of their children - especially young boys/men in order to guide them to manhood - which was not defined all the time on a white patriarchal definition of "success" to be a man). That was a strength of ours that the white supremacist/patriarchal minded society was successful IMO when they did "studies" to pit black men and women against each other in the 20th century that made us question our historical culture and background and judge it as being worse than whites.
They judge us by their standards and after obtaining success in our civil rights struggles many of our men/women did the same thing - tried to define ourselves and uphold a white patriarchal standard. This is a detriment to us. We should not try to be like them. They do not have the history we had nor the experiences and contrary to what they believe, our culture is much more focused on fairness, opportunity, resilience, tolerance, etc.
Thank you for your answer.
The problem I have is this. I dated several black men in the past. Some were long term. Through them, I met many young black men. Almost all were sons of single mothers and almost all never knew their fathers.
It is not just single motherhood that I see as a problem. It's also absent fathers.
The problem I have is this. I dated several black men in the past. Some were long term. Through them, I met many young black men. Almost all were sons of single mothers and almost all never knew their fathers.
It is not just single motherhood that I see as a problem. It's also absent fathers.
Most black women have brothers or other male relatives who are role models for young black men in their families. As noted - we have a unique family structure.
Historically a large amount of all African and indigenous American cultures are matrillileal based - meaning that belonging to a tribe/community is based upon the mother's ethnicity/roots (this is the same for Jewis people as well historically).
Due to that in many of these cultures - the children of a woman - their male role models was the brothers of their mother. Fathers did have a role, but uncles/grandfathers/older cousins, etc., had a role.
Similar things occur in black families today and in the past.
I'd also caution you not to think the black men you dated are reflective of all black men in this country. My father and mother were not married and I knew/know my father for my entire life. Black couples are actually more likely to co-habit without marrying for a long time (I know some couples together 10-25 years who have never married).
The idea that black men abandon their children in large numbers is also false - IMO especially today. I am in my late 30s and grew up as noted above in the crack epidemic. This epidemic had a huge negative impact on black America in regards to crime and incarceration of black men. So your exes, if they are of this age group through 20s, would have been impacted by this.
My own husband grew up without knowing his father until he was in his 20s. His father was a Vietnam Vet and became addicted to both heroin and crack after the war and had a string of children with 7 different women. What is astounding to me about my husband and his siblings - all raised by single black mothers - is that out of the 9 children this man sired - 8 of them went to and finished college and make a middle income. The youngest is only 25 years old and she has an MBA. It depends on the mother and her family in how a child is reared. Black people have very strong, determined, resilient families.
My husband also has a half brother by his mother. His brother also is a college graduate and is middle income. My MIL has 4 brothers. All of them took an active part in helping her to rear her sons. She also had a best friend whose parents were considered my husband and his brothers "grandparents" (we call them "play" grannies/grandads in black America). My husband's play grandfather was a HUGE impact on his life and mentored him into manhood.
Those statistics mean nothing when it comes to the dynamics of the family and how good the mother and her kin are in rearing children.
ETA: I'll also add on the above, that the most concerning thing to me about young black males today, is the fact that because so many of them are seeking "success" as defined by white patriarchal culture - that many of our men are not as engaged with their younger male relatives like they were in my father/my husband's uncles generation. My dad has 5 kids by 3 different women. He has always been in our lives but not married to any of our mothers when we were born. He also basically adopoted all the kids in our neighborhood when he got off of drugs and those of his now ex-wife (who he married when he got off of drugs). He has over 20 younger adults aged 18-45 who consider him their "dad" because he was very heavily involved in all our lives. Black men have a tradition of doing this in the past. I don't see it as much today with younger black men; however, I also see more younger black fathers heavily involved in the lives of their children. I get concerned only because there are always young boys in our community who may not have a male role model that is consistently, actively in their life. Boys need a male influence no matter what many feminist minded people believe. My own husband luckily is "old school" in this regard and he is a coach and takes an active, vested interest in the lives of the young boys in our neighborhood. We live in a lower income neighborhood though we could afford not to. Both of us are comfortable living in urban environments and we like to have a direct impact on our community and be invested in making our neighborhood better. A part of doing that is looking out for the children in our neighborhood. I also look out for the young girls because I do feel that today many black single mothers work too much and that their children don't get enough mothering. Especially since our tradition of heavily involved grandmothers also seems to be on decline. I worry more about us not adhering to our historic traditions and culture in regards to family involvement and rearing of children than anything about statistics comparing us to white people or other groups in this country.
I look at things from the perspective of right and wrong. I look at things that I've been through from the perspective of right and wrong. One reason that I don't care if some people will "prefer their own kind". It's not an excuse for being a racist. It's not an excuse for individuals driving by and screaming the "n" word at me.
People just drive screaming the n word at you?
I have never seen that in my life and I dont believe the behavior of one person in a thousand is even relevant here.
I have never seen that in my life and I dont believe the behavior of one person in a thousand is even relevant here.
This happened to my husband last summer.....
It is not rare to occur in 2018.
Like I mentioned earlier, many people do not have the experience of being black in America. My late 70 year old aunt was recently pushed down and called the n-word in a big box store.
Like I mentioned earlier, many people do not have the experience of being black in America. My late 70 year old aunt was recently pushed down and called the n-word in a big box store.
Are we going tit for tat here? My 78 year old mother was at a park with her grand kids trying to put them on a swing. A black lady pushed her away and put her own child in the swing seat. She then said, "What are you going to do about it cracker"? My mother looked at her and said "God loves you". The idiot had no response.
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