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I cetainly had this problem as a young man, who was very insecure about myself 25 years ago. I was afraid to even hug a women for fear of causing offence, and actually though sex hurt women for most of my teens even if it was consensual and wanted, so never bought up the issue. It's fair to say it cost me a good number of potential girlfriends.
I can see that.
At our previous church the social norm is for all men to shake hands whenever we approach each other, and for male/females to hug each other.
Then 2 years ago we started attending a different church. this church has a woman pastor, she pulled me aside after one service and explained to me that male/females do not hug here. Too many of these females are far too fragile for that. It disturbs them too much. A female may approach and hug any male, but males are forbidden from hugging the females. You just do not know which female is too fragile that day. If you upset their fragile ego they may have to stay in their apartment for a few days to heal their egos.
So it makes sense that as a guy you need to avoid all touching of the females, in fear that they may be too fragile to be touched that day. This prohibition does not apply to females of course.
When females make the rules there is no equality, just play by their rules and keep your head down.
As a woman who started working in offices at 16, there were many great male bosses who were able to mentor a woman, interact with female subordinates or bosses and never be guilty of any kind of questionable behavior. Sure there were lots that crossed the line and I'm sure they are the ones squirming today.
That's certainly a possibility.
Please explain in detail what "the line" is and how the rest of us can know when it has, or has not, been crossed.
At our previous church the social norm is for all men to shake hands whenever we approach each other, and for male/females to hug each other.
Then 2 years ago we started attending a different church. this church has a woman pastor, she pulled me aside after one service and explained to me that male/females do not hug here. Too many of these females are far too fragile for that. It disturbs them too much. A female may approach and hug any male, but males are forbidden from hugging the females. You just do not know which female is too fragile that day. If you upset their fragile ego they may have to stay in their apartment for a few days to heal their egos.
So it makes sense that as a guy you need to avoid all touching of the females, in fear that they may be too fragile to be touched that day. This prohibition does not apply to females of course.
When females make the rules there is no equality, just play by their rules and keep your head down.
That reminds me of my husband’s old church, which was a “hugger” church. One Sunday morning, a hug from a 65-year-old turned into him holding me uncomfortably close, whispering “Mmm... yeah...” until I pushed him away and said “Hug over”. Man, I seriously wanted to take a dip in the baptismal font after that! I told my husband about it on the ride home, so the next week he kept a close eye on Deacon McHandsy, and saw him hugging on one of the teen girls, without leavin’ room for the Holy Spirit. My husband tapped him on the shoulder and said “Hey, why don’t you ever hug me like that? Now I’m jealous.” Once he knew he was being watched, Handsy didn’t pull that again.
TL;dr. At the non-hug church, could be that there was a creeper in their midst at some point, and that was a diplomatic way of preventing uncomfortable situations from happening again.
Due to me too deal, my company has stop hiring woman to keep the hassle to a minimum, we are almost all male company now except for the front office, 340 employees
Due to me too deal, my company has stop hiring woman to keep the hassle to a minimum, we are almost all male company now except for the front office, 340 employees
If you rejected qualified women, it is discrimination. Maybe someone will figure it out and file a complaint.
It reminds me of when I was a young women being harassed by more than one perv at work, did NOT complain and I still got in trouble for being a "distraction" to those men. The solution would be to remove me instead of dealing with the men doing this, or just don't hire women to distract those POS incels losers.
One of my very very very liberal friends -- yeah the kind many here can't tolerate at all......posted something about the #metoo movement. In his link he questioned a woman who made an accusation on a guy. Interesting discussion followed with folks in general. It is obvious there is a learning curve while we navigate this new world. One of his best female friends of over 30 something years gently, but firmly, made it clear that this guy's interpretation or dismissing of the woman's accusations was indicative of HIS interpretation (being a male). This woman was trying to say in so many ways that this guy had been part of the problem for years. He was defensive and angry and stormed out of the discussion. It is clear to me that men who don't realize they are part of the problem are struggling the most right now. That is not to say these men were blatant in their harassment but their acceptance or tolerance of that behavior in others made them...complicit. I know -- that dos not sound right. But it is. As a society -- we, but especially males, tolerated the wink wink, nudge nudge kind of behavior at work and in social arenas.
Yes many women flirt too and some use their power inappropriately. And that is as much of the metto as anything is.
I think if you have integrity, honesty, dignity, grace you will be okay. If you aren't sure -- by all means limit your exposure. That's a common sense thing to do.
We will figure this out...and the most important thing -- dialogue. I realized the whole reaction of this guy I had known for 40 years and a self proclaimed feminist, etc. is that there was some misunderstandings between all. His dear friend stuck with him after his little temper tantrum. Their friendship worth too much to end if over this. He realized that in some ways he had lots to think about.
Dialogue is important.
I am seeing that those that need to limit their exposure are wise to do so and using common sense. If you aren't sure, then don't put yourself in a position where someone can take advantage of that.
Male bosses/co-workers may struggle a little for now. That's okay-- I struggled for 30 years trying to ditch, avoid, get over, excuse, rationalize, learn to live with the uncomfortable advances and comments that were common place in the office. I didn't fuss because it was part of the culture. Hopefully we will see it slowly become the unusual not the norm.
It has been around a long time, long before the #metoo fad.
After 20-years on Active Duty I am firmly in the habit of 'Yes maam, and No Sir' politeness. To be honest it was beat into me as a child and I have never outgrown being polite.
A few times now, on trips into the big city, me being polite, strange females have stopped to yell at me and vent a lot of their anger at me. Most of the time, my wife is with me, so she steps in the way and she tells those females to back down, that it has taken her a long time to train me to be how I am. She does not want their feminist attitudes to stop me from being polite.
I do not see it as a guy being shy or socially insecure. There are females out there today, more so in cities obviously, that are very militant in their efforts to destroy our culture.
It predates #metoo.
Why do these women yell at you?
You're in uniform with your wife and random women come and yell at you to vent their frustrations?
That's weird as hell. If you could get on video next time, this forum would eat it up. ****, Fox News would have it as its lead story for a week.
Then 2 years ago we started attending a different church. this church has a woman pastor, she pulled me aside after one service and explained to me that male/females do not hug here. Too many of these females are far too fragile for that. It disturbs them too much. A female may approach and hug any male, but males are forbidden from hugging the females. You just do not know which female is too fragile that day. If you upset their fragile ego they may have to stay in their apartment for a few days to heal their egos.
This is impossible.
Women can do anything men can do, and do it in heels.
They are strong and independent, and can take more pain than men, they trudge through sicknesses that leave men incapacitated and remind men that they as women have to give birth, which is something a man would never be able to endure.
How dare you say that a mere hug, comment or gesture could unsettle a woman.
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