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Old 07-12-2018, 03:54 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,018,373 times
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We already know the reason: the bastyrds at the top are effin GREEDY.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:01 PM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,074,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
We already know the reason: the bastyrds at the top are effin GREEDY.
Doesn't matter which side either. That's the part that partisans don't want to hear. They think ONLY about issues (social issues, hardly ever economics) and forget that while it might be honorable to fight for LGBT rights, they're empowering crooks using these issues simply to keep power. So that they can continue what they really want to do, which is control the market and steal (through various means).


There are terms for networks of people who prey on people


But hey. Americans weren't outraged when we caught the govt (police) killing citizens. Somehow everyone immediately focused on race instead of understanding the authority that was used to get these individuals off.

Still hasn't sunk in
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:04 PM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,825,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
We already know the reason: the bastyrds at the top are effin GREEDY.

That's part of it and the other component is that these rich bastards are idolized by those they're ripping off. They're taking it the arse with a smile.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:06 PM
 
5,528 posts, read 3,204,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee View Post
Interesting article....

BBC - Capital - Why your wages aren't going up

"What’s driving this? Over the past 30 or 40 years, governments in countries such as the UK and Australia have liberalised their economies, loosened employment regulation and weakened the unions, tipping the balance of power in the labour market back towards employers. Simultaneously, more people are working on short-term or freelance contracts and therefore have fewer rights to argue for better pay.
You get raises when your productivity rises. Maybe productivity hasn't been rising as much as we thought.

https://qz.com/1269172/the-epic-mist...lions-of-jobs/

Quote:
What’s odd is that, even as US factories laid off an historically unprecedented share of workers, the amount of stuff they made rose steadily—or at least, it appeared to. The sector’s growth in output, adjusted for inflation, had been chugging away at roughly the same pace as US GDP since the late 1940s. That makes sense given that productivity—that is, advances in technology, skill, or management that allow workers to make more stuff in less time—has also been growing at a zippy clip.

How, then, do you reconcile the epic employment slump of the 2000s with the steady rise in output? The obvious conclusion is that factories needed fewer people than they did in the past because robots are now doing more and more of the producing. That’s tough for factory workers, but US manufacturing is doing fine.

That rests on the basic assumption that the manufacturing output data reflect the actual volume of stuff produced by US factories. It’s a reasonable assumption to make. Unfortunately, it’s not an accurate one.
Quote:
Government data wizards do this sort of quality adjustment for all sorts of products, including automobiles. However, the biggest adjustments show up in processors and the other goods made by the computers subsector, in which the blazing pace of technological change makes for dramatic and ultra-fast leaps in quality.

In other words, the method statisticians use to account for these advances can make it seem like US firms are producing and selling more computers than they actually are. And when the computers data are aggregated with the other subsectors, the adjustment makes it seem like the whole of American manufacturing is churning out more goods than it actually is.
Quote:
Between 2000 and 2016, the average growth in the sector’s real output was only about 63% of that of the private sector. But when you take out computers out of both data series, the trend is far more striking: Since 2000, manufacturing output expanded at an average pace equal to only 12% of the private sector’s average growth.

In fact, according to Houseman’s data, without computers, manufacturing’s real output expanded at an average rate of only about 0.2% a year in the 2000s. By 2016, real manufacturing output, sans computers, was lower than it was in 2007.
In other words, we've been overestimating manufacturing productivity because the explosive productivity growth in the computer sector was skewing the data. Most manufacturing workers don't work in the computer industry, so if their output has been flat for decades so should their wages.

The linked article also explains how this mistake about productivity led to bad industrial policy that encouraged offshoring, reducing the number of mid-wage jobs in favor of low-wage service sector jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee View Post
Instead of increasing salaries, many companies have shifted their focus to rolling out a raft of benefits and perks to keep employees happy. The latest data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics reveals wages and salaries now account for 68.2% of total employee compensation, while 18 years ago it was 72.5%. Across the G20 nations as a whole, the labour share of income has been falling, suggesting companies are holding onto their profits rather than sharing them with the workforce."
Salary growth has been crimped by benefit cost growth mainly in healthcare. That's a complicated problem, but it's fundamentally about 1) an aging workforce, 2) an increasingly unhealthy workforce across all ages, and 3) artificial limits on the supply of healthcare by providers and pharmaceutical companies.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:20 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,581,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Salary growth has been crimped by benefit cost growth mainly in healthcare. That's a complicated problem, but it's fundamentally about 1) an aging workforce, 2) an increasingly unhealthy workforce across all ages, and 3) artificial limits on the supply of healthcare by providers and pharmaceutical companies.
Hmmm........you have 1/2 of it right - healthcare is a major problem in this country.

But the 3 reasons don't include the main one...one which I am very familiar with.

HealthCare is also predatory to the extreme, making our costs higher than anywhere in the world.

Spending 11K per person per year - even for those who are not insured - is not sustainable and will put pressure on our economy for decades. Unless we fix it.

We started on the path (first you have to cover everyone...then you work on the costs and health/preventative, etc.).....but now we have a POTUS and political party who want to turn the clock backwards....and not for any sane reason, rather just because "they didn't do it" .
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Missouri
4,272 posts, read 3,773,082 times
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Another drag on wages in America is that labor in Mexico, in China, in Vietnam, etc. works for dollars per DAY vs. the dollars per hour here.

As long as it is cheaper to manufacture with over seas labor and to ship back to America than it is to employ a workforce here then wages here become stagnant if not back track.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:30 PM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,643,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimchee View Post
The gist of this to me sounds to me like corporate tax cuts and trickle down theory isn't going to work, nor is it helping that we have a political party in power that seems to favor corporations at the expense of union and employee rights.
I don't think they call it trickle down anymore, it's just take from the poor and give to the rich.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:39 PM
 
8,924 posts, read 5,578,695 times
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The workers pay may have stagnated but the boss is doing just fine. Do you think he is going to share his good fortune with the little people? Trump lied and said it would mean more money for you. No, sorry. It was really for the top 1%. You fell for the trickle down again.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:42 PM
 
31,652 posts, read 26,506,721 times
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Don't know or care why wages are stagnating elsewhere in world.


As for USA reasons are already well documented in part of whole.


Decrease in union representation, increased inroads of technology allowing greater productivity from less workers, changing nature of employment/jobs, and other reasons are primary why wages for average American workers haven't been rising.


One other main reason is either that workers are already being paid well or more than what their job is worth (how much is anyone going to pay a fast food worker, Starbuck's barista and similar workers), and or people just don't have the balls to demand higher wages and or nerve to jump ship for something better.


People who are sure of themselves professionally or skill set wise long have told their bosses "you meet my number or am walking", if latter calls their bluff, they go and that is that.


Indeed main way many are getting any increase in wages today is by quitting one job for another. Every company/business is busy poaching someone else's workers.


Overall however major reason for decreasing American wages is the movement away from manufacturing based economy to a knowledge/skill version.


Those with in demand skills/backgrounds *are* seeing their household incomes rise. People without, well there you are then.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:59 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,018,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
That's part of it and the other component is that these rich bastards are idolized by those they're ripping off. They're taking it the arse with a smile.
Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominftl View Post
The workers pay may have stagnated but the boss is doing just fine. Do you think he is going to share his good fortune with the little people? Trump lied and said it would mean more money for you. No, sorry. It was really for the top 1%. You fell for the trickle down again.
Bingo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Don't know or care why wages are stagnating elsewhere in world.


As for USA reasons are already well documented in part of whole.


Decrease in union representation, increased inroads of technology allowing greater productivity from less workers, changing nature of employment/jobs, and other reasons are primary why wages for average American workers haven't been rising.


One other main reason is either that workers are already being paid well or more than what their job is worth (how much is anyone going to pay a fast food worker, Starbuck's barista and similar workers), and or people just don't have the balls to demand higher wages and or nerve to jump ship for something better.


People who are sure of themselves professionally or skill set wise long have told their bosses "you meet my number or am walking", if latter calls their bluff, they go and that is that.


Indeed main way many are getting any increase in wages today is by quitting one job for another. Every company/business is busy poaching someone else's workers.


Overall however major reason for decreasing American wages is the movement away from manufacturing based economy to a knowledge/skill version.


Those with in demand skills/backgrounds *are* seeing their household incomes rise. People without, well there you are then.
People with in demand skills are facing stagnating wages too.

I came out of transportation (driving and freight brokering) before becoming a PM with my present company. There is no job more critical right now than truck drivers. The industry needs tens of thousands of new truckers each year just to stop the bleeding...and the triage isn’t even enough to fill the increasing demands for new truckers.

The reason? The work is crap, and the pay is crappier. Truckers used to make 100k per year adjusted for inflation back in the late 70’s. Now? 40k a year on average. And despite the all out recruiting assault, the pay is BARELY inching upwards. Meanwhile trucking execs are still drawing fatcat salaries as if everything is copacetic and they’re completely ignoring (on purpose) the cause of the trucker shortage. They can’t bear to own one less yacht.

Freight rates are still in the toilet, and truckers are still facing atrocious conditions at shippers and receivers who don’t value their time.

It’s one big reason that although I wanna quit my present job and go back to brokering freight, I just don’t have the heart for it at this point. I’m tired of quoting horrible freight rates to potential carriers, but there’s little I can do.

So I don’t buy the productivity and skill set argument. Productive people with great skill sets are seeing stagnation in wages too.
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