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Old 07-14-2018, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
38,968 posts, read 27,356,866 times
Reputation: 15909

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
Allright.. answer this: The US Military is Global.. how much of the 3.2% is spent on NATO, IN EUROPE?
Again, NONE of these questions have anything to do with the point I was making.

But just to be polite (and I am a polite person), I have to google it, I am sure you can google it too if you really want this question answered.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:13 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,374,313 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Stay on topic.

You can lecture me about the rules he broke, but this is about military protection and agreement.

If you cannot stay on topic, I will just ignore your post. Insult really does not work for me, try another good way for a productive debate.
The Breaking of an agreement is the TOPIC.

Now you're presuming to lecture about civility as well? After your insulting post incorporating "so called allies" and "ungrateful people".

Brother; on the arrogance front you and lying Don have quite a lot in common.

The U.S. does nothing for altruistic reasons, especially of a military nature. Americans are known for the "not my war" stance right up until they themselves start a war then demand everyone else get involved.

If money is being spent, the U.S. is getting something for it that usually no one else is.

Get over yourselves already.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:15 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,374,313 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Again, NONE of these questions have anything to do with the point I was making.

But just to be polite (and I am a polite person), I have to google it, I am sure you can google it too if you really want this question answered.
Well bless your heart!
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
38,968 posts, read 27,356,866 times
Reputation: 15909
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Well bless your heart!
well, since I like you, I won't take it as a sweet insult. How about that?
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:57 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,374,313 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
well, since I like you, I won't take it as a sweet insult. How about that?

Well now I'm flummoxed! Totally took the wind out my main and top sails. Now I'm becalmed in the middle of the ocean.


Good on ya girl......ya got me.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:34 PM
 
9,639 posts, read 5,978,935 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
So.. How much of US military spending is spent on NATO?
Please answer us this lilyflower, since you are the most fanatical one about this.

The US Military is Global.. how much of the 3.2% is spent on NATO, IN EUROPE?

NATO has agreed to ramp up its spending from 2014 to 2024, and set a 2% goal.. Is the US spending 2% of its GDP defending NATO in Europe?


NATO spent 3-5% of GDP during the Cold War.. then spending dropped when Soviet Union collapsed.. even the US military spending. Then 9/11 happened, ALL NATO countries stepped up and helped the US in Afghanistan. The US is the ONLY country that has ever enacted article 5... the US ramped up its military spending to fight goat herders in Afghanistan and Iraq. Wasting 8-10 TRILLION Dollars blowing up hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians during the last 15 years.




Who benefits from the US leaving NATO : Putin
Who benefits from the US leaving bases in Europe : Putin
Who benefits from the US criticizing its allies in Europe : Putin
Who benefits from the US imposing tariffs on its allies in Europe : Putin
Who benefits from a divide from the 70+ years of agreements the US and Europe has negotiated : Putin
Who benefits from Trump gutting the FBI, the DOJ, the NSA, the CIA : Putin

and you are like, YES, finally somebody stands up to our "allies".. those scum, taking advantage of us. Somehow..

Sad bunch!
The bigger problem is why are we spending so much in the first place. NATO spending in Europe isn't much of it.

Couldn't have anything to do with the last GOP administration starting wars based entirely on knowing their justifications were lies...
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,928 posts, read 13,156,090 times
Reputation: 19159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
well, Please do not give me the hand, it is not necessary.

I don't see the above has anything to do with the point I was making.

I was talking about Germany, not UK in case you missed

Plus, I don't know what I posted you disagree with, so there is really nothing else for me to say.

All these said, I don't disagree with you 100%, but I sincerely wish that you could take some time considering the point I was making.

I genuinely enjoyed our exchange. I know this is a sensitive topic for a lot of countries. So I understand the emotion side of it. lol

Have a nice day.
In terms of Germany, a lot of the bases there are giant logistic hubs, that saw massive activity during the Iraq War and in terms of Afghanistan. Next to the giant Ramstein Logistics and USAF HQ is a vast military hospital, the largest outside the US and many US Casualities had their lives saved at this hospital.

They US is currently building a new $1 Billion hospital.

New US Military Hospital, Weilerbach - CDM Smith

There are also intelligence and other such units in Germany.

Italy also has a significant US Military presence which supports US Operations in the Mediterranean, Middle East, North Africa and beyond.

A lot of the US Military presence in Europe is to allow the US to maintain a strategic advantage and to project power. Europe is important because it fforms part of a larger land mass and is at the crossroads to the Middle East, North Africa anf parts of Asia on one side, whilst it is also important in securing Atlantic routes to the US, ad in relation to Russia, it even plays a role in the Arctic.

It is an important intelligence, logistic and supply, medical and support hub, and it should be noted that US forces based in Europe are often deployed outside of Europe.
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:59 AM
 
2,903 posts, read 1,961,454 times
Reputation: 3474
NATO should have been disbanded after the Soviet Union collapsed. Heck, I could see that as an enlisted man who served six years in the Navy, the final three in southern West Germany from late December '86 to late December '89. Because it wasn't the U.S. has paid the lion's share of defending NATO member countries who haven't done enough to protect themselves, just relied on Uncle Sam.

There was anti-American sentiment in Europe long before the Afghanistan & Iraq wars, most of them were barely there for us during those wars, some not at all, which is proof they wont be there in a major war for us if one breaks out with China and/or Russia. With the exception of Great Britain I don't see another NATO member country that would be capable or willing, and even they may not be there for us.

And Turkey never should have been allowed into NATO. The thinking was to bring them in so they didn't build an alliance with Russia. So we sell them hi-tech weaponry, and now they have a madman dictator that has close ties with Russia, and has attacked and killed many of our Kurdish allies that were fighting against ISIS. The Kurds have been oppressed by the Turks & Iraq for a very long time, it's a shame G.W. & Obama didn't do more to ensure they'd have their own country at the end of the Iraq war. The ones stuck in Turkey wouldn't have been part of it, but it is possible Turkey would have expelled them from the country.

If it were up to me, NATO would be disbanded gradually over the next few years so those countries incapable of defending themselves would have time to build up their armies and navies.

Maybe European leaders would then realize how important having a close relationship with the United States really is. We know who our friends are and who is taking us for a ride, but even our friends aren't pulling their weight. Very few are.

In case any of you are interested in the military might of each NATO member: https://www.globalfirepower.com/coun...to-members.asp Click on each country to see their numbers, troop strength, ships, etc.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:19 AM
 
2,903 posts, read 1,961,454 times
Reputation: 3474
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
The bigger problem is why are we spending so much in the first place. NATO spending in Europe isn't much of it.

Couldn't have anything to do with the last GOP administration starting wars based entirely on knowing their justifications were lies...
We are spending so much because we are being fleeced by the defense industry, because we pay officers way too much, and because our so-called allies aren't doing enough not only in Europe but to ensure shipping lanes stay open and safe around the world.

To your second point, no it's not because of that. The war in Afghanistan was to go after those who had attacked us. Iraq on the other hand, while I was vehemently against invading, is a war we may have had to fight eventually. Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly a pussycat. He was very threatening in his language against the U.S. and made it clear he wanted to attack us in some way, possibly our troops in Afghanistan. Bush was a fool thinking he could sell the war on the flimsy evidence he had on WMDs. He should have waited and just kept a watchful eye on Hussein. Maybe the Iraq war could have been avoided, maybe not. After both his father and Clinton reduced our military way too much, we never should have entered into a second war. One of the dumbest decisions ever by a president. To your point though our military spending issues have way more to do with us being fleeced by the defense industry than anything else.
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,928 posts, read 13,156,090 times
Reputation: 19159
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioJB View Post
We are spending so much because we are being fleeced by the defense industry, because we pay officers way too much, and because our so-called allies aren't doing enough not only in Europe but to ensure shipping lanes stay open and safe around the world.

To your second point, no it's not because of that. The war in Afghanistan was to go after those who had attacked us. Iraq on the other hand, while I was vehemently against invading, is a war we may have had to fight eventually. Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly a pussycat. He was very threatening in his language against the U.S. and made it clear he wanted to attack us in some way, possibly our troops in Afghanistan. Bush was a fool thinking he could sell the war on the flimsy evidence he had on WMDs. He should have waited and just kept a watchful eye on Hussein. Maybe the Iraq war could have been avoided, maybe not. After both his father and Clinton reduced our military way too much, we never should have entered into a second war. One of the dumbest decisions ever by a president. To your point though our military spending issues have way more to do with us being fleeced by the defense industry than anything else.
Te real truth is that the US has very few bases in Europe and the forces it has have increasingly been moved south over recent decades to Italy and the Mediterranean, and are more focused on the Middle East and North Africa.

In terms of Germany, there are 20,000 US Army based there, the rest is mainly airforce, as Ramstein is a global logistics and medical hub for US Forces.

Whilst closing down conventional bases in places syuch as the UK, the US has expanded is intelligence facilities and bases.

Many of the US bases in Europe are now more to do with American intelligence gathering and supporting US Operations in regions beyind Europe.

Outside of Germany and Italy, there are a few bases in the UK, a Naval base in Spain and a NATO force in Poland and the Balkans but most European countries have a tiny US presense if any at all.

United States military deployments - Wikipedia
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