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Where did I say I supported crime? It was said chopping off a hand makes the person a burden to society. I said he was a thief and already a burden to society and hacking off a hand would make it more difficult to be a thief.
How is that supporting crime? Explain that in great detail.
I think we are headed for separated societies. There is no other option. People want to feel safe in their homes and when out doing business and they don’t want to deal with these unfortunate souls left to go feral in the inner cities.
Ah, Americans, where they don't trust the government to take away even the most obviously inappropriate weapons from the people most obviously unfit to have anything more dangerous than a water gun, but they DO trust the government to cut off people's hands!
The two-faced insanity in such beliefs is mind-blowing.
Brilliant! Cut off their hands and then pay disability.
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Originally Posted by NJmann
No they wouldn’t be qualified for it
So, from what I can gather, if the handless do not have family to support them, they will die a slow and painful death as they starve to death on the street.
This is hands-down (no pun intended) the lowest quality thread I have ever participated in. I am quite ashamed of myself.
So, from what I can gather, if the handless do not have family to support them, they will die a slow and painful death as they starve to death on the street.
This is hands-down (no pun intended) the lowest quality thread I have ever participated in. I am quite ashamed of myself.
Of course that’s their punishment. Nobody told them to commit a crime. There are consequences in this world world
There are any number of archaic methods of punishment which could be put to use to curb the crime rate in America. The problem is, most if not all of these methods would be considered cruel and unusual punishment in most of the modern world. The world has become "civilized",
Those of you who haven't visited China, should. There is 0 violent crime in China. It's one of the safest places on the planet, as far as crime goes. Men, women, and children walk around alone in any neighborhood of Shanghai, day or night, and there's zero chance of being mugged. That's *Shanghai*: the biggest city in the world. A huge urban jungle, and as utterly safe as any of the safest places you can think of.
There's three main reasons for this.
The first is that the Chinese government has a very strict, no tolerance policy for any kind of crime other than petty stealing. They hand out swift, severe sentences - I'm sure most of you have heard about that. Nobody dares to risk doing anything because the penalties are not worth it.
Second is that nobody has guns in China. By nobody I mean the general public outside a few law enforcement or military.
Third is just speculation on my part, but I think it has to do with Chinese culture and way of thinking, which doesn't seem to lend itself to violence as a means to achieve things. In Shanghai you'll see people raise their voices and argue but you'll never see anyone laying a hand on eachother in anger. Kind of odd considering our Western impression of them as "kung fu masters" and such.
I think we are headed for separated societies. There is no other option. People want to feel safe in their homes and when out doing business and they don’t want to deal with these unfortunate souls left to go feral in the inner cities.
Again, thanks for that liberals.
We already had separate societies back in the old days. It was called Jim Crow. It was called racial discrimination. It was called denial of rights.
And several cities like St. Louis, Memphis, and Philadelphia had slums, crime, and all kinds of problems. I don't blame liberals for that. This has been a problem long before liberals. Several cities had conditions not unlike that which is read about in Charles Dickens' novels. Thugs were rampant in the inner cities long before liberals had much to do with it. This has been a problems even since America existed. Wherever there have been cities, slums and crime have followed.
Nothing is a deterrent if people think they are going to get away with it. People rob and cheat and kill now and they don't care if they go to jail or not and lose their freedom.
In many cases, some people treat going to prison like a badge of honor. In some circles, having served time in prison is considered "cool". Some people know they are going to prison for stealing and killing. Some people don't see themselves living past 30, so taking someone else's like means nothing to them. How can you deter someone who views prison as "cool"? How can you deter someone who doesn't value his own life let alone someone else's?
Those of you who haven't visited China, should. There is 0 violent crime in China. It's one of the safest places on the planet, as far as crime goes. Men, women, and children walk around alone in any neighborhood of Shanghai, day or night, and there's zero chance of being mugged. That's *Shanghai*: the biggest city in the world. A huge urban jungle, and as utterly safe as any of the safest places you can think of.
There's three main reasons for this.
The first is that the Chinese government has a very strict, no tolerance policy for any kind of crime other than petty stealing. They hand out swift, severe sentences - I'm sure most of you have heard about that. Nobody dares to risk doing anything because the penalties are not worth it.
Second is that nobody has guns in China. By nobody I mean the general public outside a few law enforcement or military.
Third is just speculation on my part, but I think it has to do with Chinese culture and way of thinking, which doesn't seem to lend itself to violence as a means to achieve things. In Shanghai you'll see people raise their voices and argue but you'll never see anyone laying a hand on eachother in anger. Kind of odd considering our Western impression of them as "kung fu masters" and such.
Many parts of China are safe, but there are some issues in Xijiang-Uygur, namely terrorism. That part doesn't make the news in the west very often.
The USA is not China. It won't be. Freedom is valued too much here to let that happen.
Now, there is something you must understand. I don't think applying Chinese-style enforcement of laws would work in the USA.
Chinese culture is a much bigger part of the low crime issue than the first two. In China there is a much bigger sense of not wanting to shame the family. If you commit a crime, it isn't just the punishment you have to worry about. It is being disowned by your family, bringing shame to your family, that is something you must worry about. While both the USA and China have individualism, there is a stronger element of collectivism in China. Swift, severe sentences might be part of the idea. However, the idea of shame is a much bigger pull than you think.
Contrast this with the USA. People who commit crimes in America are out for themselves. In alot of cases, they come from broken families. The idea of "I've shamed my family" doesn't exist. There is no shaming mechanism to kept said persons from committing crimes. Many persons who commit violent crimes do not care if they live or die and don't care if anyone else dies with them. They have no shame. Among some subcultures, serving time in prison is considered "cool". And many of those persons already think of themselves as outcastes of society, as those who are at war with the rest of society. No amount of shame would stop them.
If you are in a gang, going to prison is considered a badge of honor. Punishment means nothing to someone who doesn't care. In fact, if said thugs survive Chinese-style prisons, they would brag about how tough they are. Chinese culture has Confucianism. Obedience to authority is paramount. That "Rebel Without a Cause" doesn't fly in China.
In many cases, the guy who served time in prison has an easier time getting a girlfriend than the bookish, nerdy type. And this segues into something else.
In China, a woman can't bring home a thug or some other lowlife. The father and mother won't allow it. Parental word is law. There is also no getting pregnant BEFORE you're married in China. The parents have to approve of the man, and the man has to be someone of substance, someone who is worthy of building a family with. There is no bringing home James Dean or Li'l Wayne. Nerds are preferred. Nerds make money. Nerds don't get in trouble with the law. Nerds don't sleep with a bunch of women and leave babies everywhere.
And I would not say no one owns a gun in China. China has a very low rate of gun ownership, 3.6 per 100,000. Haiti has a gun ownership rate that is lower, 2.6 per 100,000. Alot of crime and violence takes place in Haiti. And people have starved to death in Haitian prisons. In Iceland, there are alot of guns, but very little crime. Same with Norway.
Many parts of China are safe, but there are some issues in Xijiang-Uygur, namely terrorism. That part doesn't make the news in the west very often.
Still, deaths from terrorism in China are orders of magnitude fewer in number than deaths from random street violence in the U.S.
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Chinese culture is a much bigger part of the low crime issue than the first two.
This could be. I just don't know enough about the culture or their mentality to see how big of an influence it is. It's certainly a big influence that the Government and police have such a tight control of everything that's no tolerance for crime. There's no doubt about this being an influence. As far as the cultural aspect, I don't know how large of a contribution it makes.
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While both the USA and China have individualism, there is a stronger element of collectivism in China.
This is true. I've seen this both over there, and also among my Chinese friends and coworkers here.
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Contrast this with the USA. People who commit crimes in America are out for themselves. In alot of cases, they come from broken families. The idea of "I've shamed my family" doesn't exist.
This is also true.
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Among some subcultures, serving time in prison is considered "cool".
I view this as a mentality that's left over from the days of the Old West / Pioneer /Westward expansion.
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And I would not say no one owns a gun in China. China has a very low rate of gun ownership,
The only people that own guns in China are the old-time farmers that live in the mountains or the countryside. These are old guns that they inherited.
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3.6 per 100,000. Haiti has a gun ownership rate that is lower, 2.6 per 100,000. Alot of crime and violence takes place in Haiti. And people have starved to death in Haitian prisons. In Iceland, there are alot of guns, but very little crime. Same with Norway.
Interesting statistics. Definitely argues in favor of the cultural hypothesis as a main factor.
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