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Old 07-17-2018, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,796 posts, read 9,331,249 times
Reputation: 38302

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Here is an overview:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/roug...ic-income.html

Although I do see that UBI has some merits, I am nevertheless against it -- for now, at least. As long as it IS possible for people to survive even if it means working one full-time and two part-time jobs, I don't think people should expect anything without earning it IF it is possible for them to earn their way. (I know that is not always the case!) Btw, I do support a LIVING wage for a minimum wage for anyone between the ages of 18 and 65, inclusive. I think it is very sad for any working adult to be making only about $7.00 an hour, no matter how unskilled they are.)

IF we ever get to the point where there are just not enough jobs to support everyone, I will reconsider my opinion -- but not until then.

P.S. This especially concerns me because if it becomes a reality, according to the opinion of someone quoted in the article, there might be cuts to Social Security and Medicare -- and that comes down to the question as to why should people have worked for most of their lives to have SS and Medicare in their old age be forced to sacrifice at least some of those benefits to those who have chosen not to work. (And, again, I am not talking about those who CAN'T work, but only about those who WON'T.)

Last edited by katharsis; 07-17-2018 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:33 PM
 
10,681 posts, read 6,110,337 times
Reputation: 5667
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Most of the shootings have nothing to do with desperation for money.

It’s all about interpersonal conflicts played out on a social media, gang wars and just because.

If passed, $500/ month for 1000 of the lowest income households ( $6 million/ yr) in a city of 2.7 million is not going to make much of a difference.

This bill is goofy.
Should be tested though.

https://youtu.be/kl39KHS07Xc

In preparation:
https://youtu.be/WSKi8HfcxEk
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:36 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,356,421 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftymh View Post
Landlords will know everyone has an extra 500 bucks.
LOL. No. They will know some do. And thats a good indication of one of the limitations of this experiment.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,796 posts, read 9,331,249 times
Reputation: 38302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
ACtually crime might subside AS a result. Hence no desperation for money..
Perhaps I am wrong, but aren't most "money crimes" committed by illegal drug users who cannot afford the drugs without stealing?

This article is an old one-- I could not find a more recent one with a more recent figure -- but according to a report written in 1999, 60 percent of people arrested tested positive for illegal drugs.

https://www.nadcp.org/sites/default/...0Courts%20.pdf

Of course, it could be argued that if people were more content, that illegal drug use would decrease.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:42 PM
 
29,505 posts, read 22,616,067 times
Reputation: 48210
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Most of the shootings have nothing to do with desperation for money.

It’s all about interpersonal conflicts played out on a social media, gang wars and just because.

If passed, $500/ month for 1000 of the lowest income households ( $6 million/ yr) in a city of 2.7 million is not going to make much of a difference.

This bill is goofy.
Yup.

Just like similar hair brained 'universal basic income' schemes proposed by other cities throughout America.

In less than an hour someone could earn way more slanging dope.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:42 PM
 
10,681 posts, read 6,110,337 times
Reputation: 5667
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
Perhaps I am wrong, but aren't most "money crimes" committed by illegal drug users who cannot afford the drugs without stealing?

This article is about 20 years old -- I could not find a more recent one -- but it said that 60 percent of people arrested tested positive for illegal drugs.

https://www.nadcp.org/sites/default/...0Courts%20.pdf

Of course, it could be argued that if people were more content, that illegal drug use would decrease.
Depression leads to drug use. Put more reapurces for mental health and also help drug users and not demonize.
And addiction can be anything. Not just street drugs or what we consider drugs all together.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:44 PM
 
45,201 posts, read 26,414,151 times
Reputation: 24961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Depression leads to drug use. Put more reapurces for mental health and also help drug users and not demonize.
And addiction can be anything. Not just street drugs or what we consider drugs all together.
Wow is there anything you dont want to make your neighbor pay for?
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:46 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 10,410,632 times
Reputation: 14887
It's been tried, now coming to an end.



Finland to end its universal basic income program by year's end | Fox News


As a taxpayer I'm already irritated by the "handout" programs. I'm perfectly fine with assistance for those who try, but struggle or fail. I'm not okay with "here's a freebie, just because you can't be bothered to try".


I should note that I also grew up just off an Indian Reservation, later in life my wife provided free medical services on those same Reservations ~ most get what is essentially a 'basic income' in conjunction with their free housing and free medical. It typically goes to alcohol and drugs, at least on the dozen or so Reservations where I have direct, in person, on the ground experience. Not for the betterment of self or community, which is (I think) the hope of the dreamers who came up with this idea.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,796 posts, read 9,331,249 times
Reputation: 38302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
And addiction can be anything. Not just street drugs or what we consider drugs all together.
True -- I think I probably should have used the term "drug abuse" instead of "illegal drugs".
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:47 PM
 
10,681 posts, read 6,110,337 times
Reputation: 5667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Yup.

Just like similar hair brained 'universal basic income' schemes proposed by other cities throughout America.

In less than an hour someone could earn way more slanging dope.
while at the same time someone can go to college and not have to worry about losing their apartment and focus on the career that would get them to a better standard pf living.

No system is 100% perfect. Not everyone will use it for the right reasons. But Id rather reward the hard workers than punish them because others dont use it right. Id rather give people the ability to succeed that want to succeed than to punish them along with people who don’t do half the work they do.

And I I think our society is changing because the ceiling is getting higher but the floor is stagnating. And then when we face automation. Especially with machine learning.
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