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Old 07-19-2018, 12:56 PM
 
18,069 posts, read 18,801,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
In terms of NATO other than the Headquartes and a few other commands that amount to a couple of billion there is no centra defence pot we all chip in to and no debt owed. The US Contributes 22% towards NATO Administration and Command functions but this is only a fairly minor expense.
There is no exrta defense pot, but there are assets that are designated to NATO, such as a destroyer for missile defense, or an intelligence plane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The US can decide it's own defence budget, and can spend what it likes on defence, as can other countries, however again it should be noted that less than 5% of the US Defence Budget goes towards NATO, and thew US does not contibute a a disproportionate share of the NATO costs.
I agree, the US defense spending should/does not have any relation to NATO members spending. But fact is through collective defense, the US does and would contribute the disproportionate amount of resources to the defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
As for a NATO duty, no US base in Europe belongs to the US, the American forces are classed as US Visting Forces. and we certainly aren't going to pay the US for landing planes at our own base nor is there any possibility of some NATO duty, although we do pay for services for US Personnel such as childrens education. and local services.
No US base in Japan and Korea belongs to the US, but we still have them without any sort of NATO like organization. NATO can still exist without the US, nothing prevents that. The US can also have individual agreements, just as they do elsewhere in the world.

I was stationed in Europe for a few years, I am pretty familiar (but not an expert of course) with the ins and outs of hosting US forces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The alternative is for the US to leave NATO and have to ask permission for it's ships to use European ports, it's military aircraft to fly over European countries, and to have no support functions in Europe. This would leave a big gap in areas such as intelligence, logistics/supply, medical support, medical support and numerous other functions, and it would end up costing the US more to project any future military force without European bases, whilst the loss of such bases would also massively diminish the US status as a world power at a time when China (which now has a close friendship with Russia), is spending vast sums on expanding it's gobal influence.
The US can have all the permissions and support needed, just as the US has in Asia without the NATO type organization. The US and what is left of NATO are free to intermingle, participate, whatever in any activities they want, just as the US, Japan, and SK does.
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,132 posts, read 13,424,152 times
Reputation: 19426
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
There is no exrta defense pot, but there are assets that are designated to NATO, such as a destroyer for missile defense, or an intelligence plane.
There are very few NATO assets, there are some AWACS and a couple of other things but that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
I agree, the US defense spending should/does not have any relation to NATO members spending. But fact is through collective defense, the US does and would contribute the disproportionate amount of resources to the defense.
In terms of collective defence Europe has it's own collective forces and the US does not contribute a disproportionate amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
No US base in Japan and Korea belongs to the US, but we still have them without any sort of NATO like organization. NATO can still exist without the US, nothing prevents that. The US can also have individual agreements, just as they do elsewhere in the world.
Individual agreements wOuld not offer anything like the US has now, and the Europeans would have their own defence pact without the the US, so you would have to make an agreement on a European level, which may be problematic especially at a time of tariffs or in relation to US inteligence bases which the EU has been critical of in the past, whilst some European countries such as France, put an end to US bases back in the 60's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
I was stationed in Europe for a few years, I am pretty familiar (but not an expert of course) with the ins and outs of hosting US forces.
That may be so (and I appreciate your service especiually if it was in the USAF in the UK), however there is no way that US Forces could charge Europe for using bases, as a lot of the US bases today, such as those in Italy or at Ramstein in Germany operate a far greater remit than merely supporting NATO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
The US can have all the permissions and support needed, just as the US has in Asia without the NATO type organization. The US and what is left of NATO are free to intermingle, participate, whatever in any activities they want, just as the US, Japan, and SK does.
I refer you to my previous answwer and the fact that you would be dealing with a European defence pact rather than individual agreements.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:30 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,175,777 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
That works. Next time the USA is under attack (planes & towers), Canada will sit back and tell the USA to find some other place to park their planes. That's what you want, right?
Dude, if you’re waiting for the Canadians to save your ass in case of an attack, you’re already behind the 8-ball.

The United States doesn’t need military allies. I don’t know why you guys are so damn scared.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:12 PM
 
7,489 posts, read 4,948,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Dude, if you’re waiting for the Canadians to save your ass in case of an attack, you’re already behind the 8-ball.

The United States doesn’t need military allies. I don’t know why you guys are so damn scared.
The Canadians saved a whole lot of sorry butts when the Middle East attacked the USA, thanks to NATO. Let the USA part from NATO and the next time the USA needs a safe air strip, they might find their planes sinking in the middle of the ocean.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:22 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,319,539 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Dude, if you’re waiting for the Canadians to save your ass in case of an attack, you’re already behind the 8-ball.

The United States doesn’t need military allies. I don’t know why you guys are so damn scared.
Then don't come begging for them when you want them. Canadians had as many soldiers, per capita, as the US in Afghanistan as as many deaths per capita fighting those who attacked you on 911. I realize dead and injured Canadians fighting AL Quiada is of little importance to many Americans however if you neither need them nor appreciate them don't bother asking.

Why isn't Trump committing to decreasing American military spending dollar for dollar for the increased spending by NATO countries? The 87 billion he claims he made from NATO, whatever that meant, then could come out of your military budget and spent on health care or seniors. Or further tax cuts to billionaires.

Canadians did more than their fair share fighting in WWII, including against the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor. My father was severely injured landing on Juno Beach on D Day and carried that physical and mental pain for over 50 years. I also don't think the Dutch were unappreacitive with the Canadian army liberating them.

Don't need military allies or apparently trade partners either, go ahead and become isolated?
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,132 posts, read 13,424,152 times
Reputation: 19426
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Then don't come begging for them when you want them. Canadians had as many soldiers, per capita, as the US in Afghanistan as as many deaths per capita fighting those who attacked you on 911. I realize dead and injured Canadians fighting AL Quiada is of little importance to many Americans however if you neither need them nor appreciate them don't bother asking.

Why isn't Trump committing to decreasing American military spending dollar for dollar for the increased spending by NATO countries? The 87 billion he claims he made from NATO, whatever that meant, then could come out of your military budget and spent on health care or seniors. Or further tax cuts to billionaires.

Canadians did more than their fair share fighting in WWII, including against the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor. My father was severely injured landing on Juno Beach on D Day and carried that physical and mental pain for over 50 years. I also don't think the Dutch were unappreacitive with the Canadian army liberating them.

Don't need military allies or apparently trade partners either, go ahead and become isolated?


I also find it strange the way Trump's America is attacking allies and trading partners.

Canadians have always been fantastic allies and friends to Britain, and long may it continue.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:19 AM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,175,777 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Then don't come begging for them when you want them. Canadians had as many soldiers, per capita, as the US in Afghanistan as as many deaths per capita fighting those who attacked you on 911. I realize dead and injured Canadians fighting AL Quiada is of little importance to many Americans however if you neither need them nor appreciate them don't bother asking.

Why isn't Trump committing to decreasing American military spending dollar for dollar for the increased spending by NATO countries? The 87 billion he claims he made from NATO, whatever that meant, then could come out of your military budget and spent on health care or seniors. Or further tax cuts to billionaires.

Canadians did more than their fair share fighting in WWII, including against the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor. My father was severely injured landing on Juno Beach on D Day and carried that physical and mental pain for over 50 years. I also don't think the Dutch were unappreacitive with the Canadian army liberating them.

Don't need military allies or apparently trade partners either, go ahead and become isolated?
Excuse me, but I’m as pro Canadian as anyone on CD is.

The United States keeps getting into stupid entanglements and quagmires, and the Canadian government should politely decline to get themselves involved in any of it. That’s what they’d do if they were smart.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:08 AM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,319,539 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Excuse me, but I’m as pro Canadian as anyone on CD is.

The United States keeps getting into stupid entanglements and quagmires, and the Canadian government should politely decline to get themselves involved in any of it. That’s what they’d do if they were smart.
Yes like us refusing to join in Iraq, a war that the Arab league begged the US to not destabilize the Middle East.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Pyongjang
5,701 posts, read 3,219,550 times
Reputation: 3925
Europe is the one that needs our defense, not vice versa. We have two oceans, two pathetically weak neighbors, and the most powerful military in the world. We're fine.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,874,022 times
Reputation: 9117
The OP seems to feel that American Tax payers should spend as much or more than all the European members of NATO combined, for their defense.. LMAO. How insane is that. As it stands we already spend over a third of what they do.

If I had my way every member country would have to pay the same dollar amount.
The USA would save billions.
Then again I would also cease all world cop activities and turn them over to the UN. We would save many billions.
Billions that could be spent on health care, infra structure and education.
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