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Old 07-20-2018, 11:01 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,017,180 times
Reputation: 8567

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
https://money.cnn.com/2009/10/21/sma...oans/index.htm

Here is an Obama solution. The best way to solve a debt crisis is to borrow more money. Yep, that's the ticket.

For example, if you owe money you can't pay, borrow more of it and invest it in a business so that you could sell it to other people who are in massive debt. In that case ,encourage your customers to also borrow more money so that every one can solve the debt problem..

Obama

https://www.aol.com/2009/08/03/banks...buy-u-s-bonds/
"U.S. lenders bailed out by the government are returning the favor by stepping up purchases of Treasuries, helping to temper a rise in borrowing costs."
Returning the favor? That's one way of looking at it, but I think that's too gentle a way to describe it. The arrangement sounds more like a con of some kind. The Treasury borrows money to lend to the banks, and then the banks lend that money to the government so the government can hold down its borrowing costs. And of course, hundreds of millions in fees and salaries are generated through this exchange.

This is how rock bottom stupid people are. Banks received cash form the bail out and "helped" by buying US bonds which is loaning money back the the US.

Bloomberg
It sounds like you need to stop look at money as money and understand at a business level money is a tool and clearly haven't put two seconds into understanding what would've really happened had the government done nothing and allowed liquidity to go bone dry.

When liquidity dried up and the Fed released funds to banks to help kickstart lending again, that was the proper action to take. The Fed isn't in the business of loaning money to individuals, banks are, so that's who you use. You think the Fed should've handed money out to mom and pop businesses? It would've taken years and countless dollars to setup that infrastructure. Who the **** cares about 3%, all businesses have overhead to cover even when they're just passing something on to someone else. When I pass work on to a sub do I not take a cut? Most certainly not. Not going to waste my time for free.

It takes money to make money. Short on cash? If you're responsible and know what you're doing then borrowing money to make more money is something that happens everyday in business. I'm routinely wrapped up in large projects that take 6-18 months to cash out of. The bigger my personal cash pile gets, the bigger my projects get. It's called ambition. Banks providing liquidity in between is what bridges that gap when you're trying to get bigger. My first project I lost $15k. I borrowed $50k for the second and made $50k in profit from it. There isn't anything wrong with getting in a hole and using more borrowed money to get out of it. The borrowed money allowed me to bounce back instantly. It's comes down to the responsibility of the person, I know plenty that don't have that responsibility, but there's nothing wrong with it.

For a lot of small businesses they needed liquidity to simply survive through the rough spot. Paying a little interest is a small price to pay. It's easier to borrow something to survive tough times then to let it burn down and have to start over. Kind of like preventative maintence for your home or you car. It costs money regardless of how well you might be doing at the time, but spending it when you need to is a lot cheaper than ignoring it and waiting till something really breaks.

PS: that tax plan was and still is garbage for the middle class. It's also highly irresponsible to be doing it in this phase of the economic cycle. This myth that if you tax the rich less they're just going to create jobs is just that, a myth. Money is not what prevents me from hiring more people, consumer demand is. That's mostly the middle class. Stop favoring the rich in tax cut bills. Stop favoring corporations. We're going to do business regardless. My tax savings? They're just going into my pot of money. Changes nothing about how my business operates or how I spend. Whenever someone thanks me for a job I tell them to thank the customers, they're the ones employing you. If the customers weren't giving me money, I wouldn't be giving them money just to be nice.

Last edited by LordSquidworth; 07-20-2018 at 11:11 AM..
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
4,466 posts, read 1,605,656 times
Reputation: 1566
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
You said:
You think recovery comes overnight? Blissfully ignorant.


I suppose that to mean you are in the know because you are not "blissfully ignorant".


It seems to be that you are just not blissful.
And that somehow means that I said I know all of Obama's policies, and how they helped us out??? Please, do explain how that means what you think it means.


The poster is obviously blissfully ignorant, since she seems to think recovery should happen overnight. But please, stay on your high horse and keep putting words in other people's mouths. Just makes YOU look ignorant.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:05 AM
 
59,029 posts, read 27,298,344 times
Reputation: 14280
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
Too bad his policies can reverse this trend. Imposing tariffs is not a smart thing to do during an expansion.



https://voxeu.org/article/stable-gen...ect-us-economy
Well gee all the "economists" in your group are in academia. The land of "theory"!

I wonder what REAL jobs they have held.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:07 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
And that somehow means that I said I know all of Obama's policies, and how they helped us out??? Please, do explain how that means what you think it means.


The poster is obviously blissfully ignorant, since she seems to think recovery should happen overnight. But please, stay on your high horse and keep putting words in other people's mouths. Just makes YOU look ignorant.
Can't the left say anything without throwing insults?

The Obama policies helped the rich, the uber rich did extremely well. For the middle class, depending where you fell in the middle class it either didn't do anything or his policies hurt. The poor remained poor. At least with Trumps policies the middle class and the lower income will get to keep more of their money. Again, based on their circumstances.

No politician is going to wave a wand and the poor become rich. It's up to each individual to position themselves to take advantage of opportunities. Gov't attempts to help in the name of helping the poor only end up making more poor. How long have they been at it and there are still poor people.

It's time for people grow up and stop looking to the gov't.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
The impact of President Trump on the macroeconomic performance of the US economy has been negligible so far. We measure neither an acceleration of growth nor increased job creation in the US economy relative to an appropriate benchmark.
Right. We have barely maintained the course. There has not been an increase in jobs added, no GDP increase, or any other measurable improvement. The stock market has stalled. The loyalists can parrot "booming economy" all day long, but they are only fooling themselves.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Near Falls Lake
4,254 posts, read 3,174,568 times
Reputation: 4701
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
I'll give some credit to Trump for the stock market. However, the overall economy is still Obama's and the stock market mostly benefits the rich. Everything Trump has done so far with the economy is more likely to cause a recession than keep it on a healthy trajectory.
So if the overall economy is still the result of Obama then using that logic, I suppose that the recovery was due to Bush?
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,621,806 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
Tariffs are the smartest thing to do to reverse the liberal globalism
Free trade and globalism is something conservatives champion. Liberals do not oppose it either, since it opens up trade and corporate profits.

Opposing free trade is a populist idea, which Trump promotes, which is the only reason people like you suddenly call it "liberal".
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Gilead
12,716 posts, read 7,811,145 times
Reputation: 11338
Quote:
Originally Posted by carcrazy67 View Post
So if the overall economy is still the result of Obama then using that logic, I suppose that the recovery was due to Bush?
Actually Bush did contribute to the recovery with the TARP bailout in late 2008. That was one of the key things that saved us from Great Depression 2.0. Both Bush and Obama made the hard decisions necessary, even though they were unpopular, to stop the bleeding.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:18 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,698,667 times
Reputation: 4631
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Well, how come it took Obama more than 8 years to be successful? Slowest recovery ever.
Most economic indicators would not back that up.

Unemployment was dropping steadily... and has continued to drop steadily. https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutpu...me=LN_cpsbref3

GDP growth has been steady since like 2000: (change to 10 year view) https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth Note: they were much higher all the way up until around 2000.

Market gains are actually below the average Obama years: It was about 12% per year from 2009 to 2017 and during Trump's term, up until today, it is about 10.1% (adjusted for yearly). I'll take 10% though. That's still really good. https://www.macrotrends.net/1319/dow...storical-chart

I guess the point is... just because people keep saying "Trump's is the best on the economy" or whatever nonsense, doesn't make it true. Numbers would help though.

In regards to the economy, my chief concern is that prior to Dec 2017, Trump hadn't really hit too many "big levers" that affect the economy. Yet, some of these indicators are stalling the moment that he started hitting the economy buttons (think tax cuts act and tariffs).

I'd be fine with Trump from an economy standpoint if he just let the ball keep rolling.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:28 AM
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
4,466 posts, read 1,605,656 times
Reputation: 1566
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Can't the left say anything without throwing insults?

The Obama policies helped the rich, the uber rich did extremely well. For the middle class, depending where you fell in the middle class it either didn't do anything or his policies hurt. The poor remained poor. At least with Trumps policies the middle class and the lower income will get to keep more of their money. Again, based on their circumstances.

No politician is going to wave a wand and the poor become rich. It's up to each individual to position themselves to take advantage of opportunities. Gov't attempts to help in the name of helping the poor only end up making more poor. How long have they been at it and there are still poor people.

It's time for people grow up and stop looking to the gov't.
It's funny seeing a right winger complaining of insults, lololol. Same thing apply to your dear leader and representatives??? Or is it just when "the left" does so that you cry about it?
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