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Old 07-25-2018, 09:34 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 27,008,828 times
Reputation: 15645

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnOurWayHome View Post
So the Parkland kids are too young to know what they're talking about or have just been brainwashed by the leftist media, but this kid wearing a build the wall shirt is clear-headed and a hero?
Why yes, yes he is because he actually had a cogent argument using the law instead of pure emotion...
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:38 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You are debating 2 different points. It's hard to answer a question when you intentionally move the goal posts in order to get the answer that you want, even though it is not relevant in the context of the discussion.

I'll simplify for it you so that it is really, really clear.

1. Do racist people exist in the world? Yes.
So people could take this particular shirt as anti-brown and be right some times?

Quote:
2. Was the tshirt that the student wore racist? No.

The topic is this particular student. Stick to it. If you want to debate racism, start another thread.

The student was unfairly singled out. Period.
The school was unfair. I never argued otherwise.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Long Island
8,840 posts, read 4,804,457 times
Reputation: 6479
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Why yes, yes he is because he actually had a cogent argument using the law instead of pure emotion...
Yeah I'm sure that was at the forefront of his thinking. I've seen enough of the build the wall people at trump rallies yelling that Latinos should go make them a taco.

Now kids who've watched their friends shot and killed and are trying to do something about gun violence by meeting with their representatives and getting kids registered to vote- let's dismiss all that.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:47 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnOurWayHome View Post
Yeah I'm sure that was at the forefront of his thinking. I've seen enough of the build the wall people at trump rallies yelling that Latinos should go make them a taco.
I don't support the building of the wall and I support a way to make those here now legal. That said, as a student, I might have worn this shirt to make a point about treating all students opinions the same.

I recall many years ago in debate class we were forced to debate a side we disagreed with. If a school is going to allow one side a say, then they also have to allow the other.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:51 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,940,989 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So people could take this particular shirt as anti-brown and be right some times?

The school was unfair. I never argued otherwise.
People can assume whatever they want at any time. If a 9 year old boy saw the tshirt, I'm sure he'd be thrilled and run to his LEGOS. Yay! Build a Wall!! I love building!!

Would the boy be correct as to the meaning of the shirt? No. Would his mom punish the student wearing the shirt for getting the hopes up of her son? No, she'd be laufged out of court. Why? The perception was WRONG.

Perception is not fact. I'm not sure why you cannot understand this and keep trying to uphold that the shirt was racist. It wasn't.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:55 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
People can assume whatever they want at any time. If a 9 year old boy saw the tshirt, I'm sure he'd be thrilled and run to his LEGOS. Yay! Build a Wall!! I love building!!

Would the boy be correct as to the meaning of the shirt? No. Would his mom punish the student wearing the shirt for getting the hopes up of her son? No, she'd be laufged out of court. Why? The perception was WRONG.

Perception is not fact. I'm not sure why you cannot understand this and keep trying to uphold that the shirt was racist. It wasn't.
You argued it can be fact. Your argument is that it's not necessarily racist. It can be taken that way and at least in some instances be correct. I'm not arguing it is always correct.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:56 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,940,989 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You argued it can be fact. Your argument is that it's not necessarily racist. It can be taken that way and at least in some instances be correct. I'm not arguing it is always correct.
You are arguing that perception supercedes fact. I have NOT argued that, not even close.

It does not.

Perception and fact are two entirely different things. You are claiming that they are the same.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:59 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
You are arguing that perception supercedes fact. I have NOT argued that, not even close.

It does not.

Perception and fact are two entirely different things. You are claiming that they are the same.
I am arguing that at times they are the same thing. I think you know that.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:10 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,940,989 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I am arguing that at times they are the same thing. I think you know that.
I have said repeatedly that people have opinions. About everything. Not sure why you continue to ignore that. But opinions are not fact. And if they are proven to be fact, well, then they are facts, not opinions.

Do you believe that people should be held accountable for other people's perceptions?
That other people's perceptions should dictate reality and produce consequences? If I think someone is robbing me, he should be charged with a crime because I think that, not because it is true?

Here's the thing: Facts don't change. Perceptions do. Do you disagree?
Or do you think people's perceptions supercede facts and should be held at a higher value?

Because that *is* what you are saying. i'm not sure you realize that.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:15 AM
 
501 posts, read 303,428 times
Reputation: 245
Look, it's pretty clear. You allow political t-shirts, you have to allow all political t-shirts, from right to left. You allow religious t-shirts, you have to allow all religious t-shirts, from Wicca to Christianity.

Then of course you get into "what is a political t-shirt" question. The best thing for a school to do is to allow no signs/pictures/writing on t-shirts whatsoever. You feel like expressing your political views, do it outside of school grounds.
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