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Old 07-31-2018, 01:05 PM
 
6,393 posts, read 4,114,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
Why is it so hard to answer an honest, direct question based on your very own claim rather than bloviate?
There is nothing for sure in life. Can you tell me with absolute certainty that if you drive carefully that you will not get into a car crash? If the answer is no, does this mean driving safely is the same as dui?

There is no guarantee that improving your skills will get you a good career making good money. But does this mean that improving your skills and always striving for better is on the same level as someone who has 3 kids out of wedlock, dropped our of highschool, and demand to get $15/hr at mcdonalds?

Again, your question was loaded and you know it.
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,358,834 times
Reputation: 7990
An honest and informed version of the minimum wage would operate like farm price supports. The market wage would be allowed to float according to supply/demand, but if it drops below the minimum, the gov't makes up the difference with a subsidy.


The fiat minimum wage (what we have now) hurts those it is purported to help--low wage workers.


The farm price support system was devised by a well-organized group (the farm lobby) seeking legislation that would actually help their members (farmers). The minimum wage was devised by disingenuous politicians (mostly Democrat) seeking to pull a fast one on those whom they represent (low-info voters).
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Boston
20,102 posts, read 9,015,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Jesus Christ with that lie about the tax rates back then. NOBODY paid those rates. You were allowed to write almost everything off back then making the effective rate basically what it is today. Maybe you should revisit an economics course and pay attention to the part where they talk about those 70-90% tax rates back then.
I was around then, you could right off everything, ever meal, every mile, every expense, it was great, bring it back! I had a shoebox full of receipts every month.
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:58 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,224,649 times
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:01 PM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,503,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
I don't like inflation. I don't think anyone does.

I also do not like the idea of someone working a full time job, trying to survive, but living at levels of poverty even though they are getting a pay check every week.
100% agree.

No person working a full-time job should live in poverty in a first-world country. That's just simply unacceptable. We're better than that.

Having said that, a $15/hour minimum seems rather arbitrary and illogical. There are simply too many variations in cost of living around the country to establish one standard wage. Wages should be decided locally, tailored to the cost of living in any particular area.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:05 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,138,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
We're all decent, for the most part. We just disagree on what will work to actually solve a problem, or whether a problem needs to be solved or managed or is even a problem at all in some cases. I think many of us have lost sight of the fact that at the end of the day we all want to do what's right, even when we don't agree on what right is.
Can't rep you again, but this is how I see it. No one's trying to be an evil villain...well, except maybe the really corrupt elite way at the top.

I say: get rid of illegals, stop importing so many foreign workers, and only then eliminate minimum wage.

Artificially high minimum wage is unsustainable, but if we eliminated it without removing illegals and unnecessary foreign labor, the going wages would be third world sweatshop level.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:05 PM
 
6,393 posts, read 4,114,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
100% agree.

No person working a full-time job should live in poverty in a first-world country. That's just simply unacceptable. We're better than that.

Having said that, a $15/hour minimum seems rather arbitrary and illogical. There are simply too many variations in cost of living around the country to establish one standard wage. Wages should be decided locally, tailored to the cost of living in any particular area.
Are you saying if I work full time as a street magician like Dr. Parnassus I ought to be able to live comfortably?

The market ought to determine what a job is worth. If a paramedic finds he's not making as much as he likes, then go on to do something else. Who's holding a gun to his head forcing him to work such a low paid job?
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,358,834 times
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Sweden does not have a minimum wage. Instead most jobs are unionized, and the union, with its professional negotiators, obtains a decent wage for workers.


Swedish liberals are much smarter than American liberals.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:23 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,138,783 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Sweden does not have a minimum wage. Instead most jobs are unionized, and the union, with its professional negotiators, obtains a decent wage for workers.


Swedish liberals are much smarter than American liberals.
Yes, but American Republicans are very anti-union...
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,358,834 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
Yes, but American Republicans are very anti-union...
I am a Republican and am pro-private sector union. It's just the public sector unions I am anti. There is a world of difference between the two.


The problem is that the public sector unions have pulled the private sector unions into their web. But we may have just fixed that w/ the Janus decision.
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