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View Poll Results: Should average automaker fleet mpg be raised to 50+ mpg by 2025, even if it causes car prices to sky
Yes 45 46.39%
No 52 53.61%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-02-2018, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,119,604 times
Reputation: 1747

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Govt epa standards should be eliminated entirely and politicians shouldn't be dictating engineering to anyone.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:38 PM
 
2,576 posts, read 1,749,621 times
Reputation: 1785
Bring back the Hummer and all the SUV's that were great to drive years ago.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:44 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24981
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
Really. I remember Los Angeles in the pre auto emission standards era. Smog so bad you couldn't see City Hall downtown.
Not suggesting a return to health harming smog, property rights can address that issue without any guv regs. but I dont see how making city hall disappear is a bad thing.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:46 PM
 
23,974 posts, read 15,082,290 times
Reputation: 12952
My 13 year old Subaru gets 34 MPG.

If a business cannot make their product without poisoning the air and water they have no business in business. That's why I loved Barry Goldwater.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,737,137 times
Reputation: 38634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
So complain about the smog in California but cheer that they can't try to address it. That is just CLASSIC.

Republicans need to shut their hypocritical mouths before they ever utter the words state's rights again.



With fuel credits, that's what it would have been - about 40 mpg. Once again, Trump shows how pathological he is about Obama. That's okay, the day will come when we can undo Trump (and his supporters) and it will be a such a pleasure. What goes around comes around and all that.
No. Read it again. I understand why CA does emissions, the state is filthy. Most states allow you to "fail" 2 of the sensors, but not CA. They only allow evap to fail because it's extremely difficult to pass evap. Everything else is required, whether it has a thing to do with smog or not.

If you want to get rid of the filth in CA, get. out. of. your. cars. Don't say in one breath that you care about the environment and the fishies and straws and then in the next breath say you're going to drive somewhere when you could fricken walk there, or you could ride a bike there...OR, the state could actually try to do something about their lack of quality public transportation.

It's been some time since I've lived in Seattle, and I'm not particularly fond of the city, but the one thing that I will give them is that they had (when I lived there) the BEST public transportation of all...excluding perhaps NYC where people grow up using public transportation and many don't even know how to drive their entire lives. Seattle nailed it with their public transportation. With exception of the recent total failure when some of the trolleys or whatever it was they were spending millions on didn't fit the tracks, the city of Seattle is a great place to look for advice on: "How You Actually Do Public Transportation". It was so good, business people used it just as much as anyone else. There was no attitude about "Oh, public transportation is for the dredge of society" like you get in CA.

CA is beyond militant with their emissions, but it doesn't solve the problem of people refusing to get out of their cars. Talk about hypocrisy at its highest.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:40 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,713,056 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
No. Read it again. I understand why CA does emissions, the state is filthy. Most states allow you to "fail" 2 of the sensors, but not CA. They only allow evap to fail because it's extremely difficult to pass evap. Everything else is required, whether it has a thing to do with smog or not.

If you want to get rid of the filth in CA, get. out. of. your. cars. Don't say in one breath that you care about the environment and the fishies and straws and then in the next breath say you're going to drive somewhere when you could fricken walk there, or you could ride a bike there...OR, the state could actually try to do something about their lack of quality public transportation.

It's been some time since I've lived in Seattle, and I'm not particularly fond of the city, but the one thing that I will give them is that they had (when I lived there) the BEST public transportation of all...excluding perhaps NYC where people grow up using public transportation and many don't even know how to drive their entire lives. Seattle nailed it with their public transportation. With exception of the recent total failure when some of the trolleys or whatever it was they were spending millions on didn't fit the tracks, the city of Seattle is a great place to look for advice on: "How You Actually Do Public Transportation". It was so good, business people used it just as much as anyone else. There was no attitude about "Oh, public transportation is for the dredge of society" like you get in CA.

CA is beyond militant with their emissions, but it doesn't solve the problem of people refusing to get out of their cars. Talk about hypocrisy at its highest.
I live in Seattle. This has nothing to do with public transportation.

This is specifically about Trump using federal laws to stop California from setting their own emissions standards which are followed by almost 20 other states, including Washington.

And once again, Trump supporters love state's rights until they are in power, then they use every federal law they can to control all the states.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:43 PM
 
4,336 posts, read 1,555,043 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
The Trump Administration has overturned the Obama cafe standards, which would have required average automaker fleet miles per gallon of 54.5 mpg by 2025. The new standards will require an average fleet mpg of 37, which is higher than what it is now, but certainly more reasonable.

The reasons are largely financial for auto buyers, as it would raise the average price of a car to over $35,000, which is not affordable for most people.


Also, California is going to have to comply with the national regulations and will not be allowed to establish its own separate regulatory regime on this topic.
Another Massive VICTORY for the American PEOPLE (and Mr. President Trump, too.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:44 PM
 
4,336 posts, read 1,555,043 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
My 13 year old Subaru gets 34 MPG.

If a business cannot make their product without poisoning the air and water they have no business in business. That's why I loved Barry Goldwater.
You must be Ancient.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:46 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24981
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
My 13 year old Subaru gets 34 MPG.

If a business cannot make their product without poisoning the air and water they have no business in business. That's why I loved Barry Goldwater.
Sure agree, but what is poison?
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
So, we should go back to the days when the greatest 'development' the manufacturers did between model years was to determine how big the tail-fins would be?


Manufacturers have been crying 'onerous regulations !' ever since there were regulations yet somehow they've managed to meet them and cars are the better for it. Or would folks like a return to the days when you planned a trip to the salvage yard when the car hit 100K?

Yes, cars are better in many ways, but unless you are involved in the technical aspects of these automobiles (I am), you probably have no idea how much of your new car's price tag is the result of emission control overkill.
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