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You are right, all those really off the wall , crazy theories are put out there on purpose, so the real conspiracy gets lumped together with the crazy ones, thus making it appear just as crazy and unbelievable. This kind of thing is a art form, they know how to hide the big secrets/conspiracies.
Its kind of like those crazy theories that President Eisenhower had a secret meeting with aliens and a contract was agreed to between the US and aliens...did that really happen..NO, but what probably happened, Eisenhower was shown something extraterrestrial they had recovered (metal, material, body, etc). putting all the crazy and bizarre theories out there make the real thing seem just as crazy.
Sandy Hook is another good example, there are many people that claim everyone was in on it, the police, first responders, parents, etc. they were all actors...well, thats really crazy and unbelievable, but its not so crazy that a tyrannical govt would orchestrate such a thing, thinking it will help to change public opinion on guns in general, which could lead to stricter gun control, that is more realistic and plausible than the 'everyone was in on it' theories, but they all get lumped together so when you hear 'Sandy Hook conspiracy theory' its likely you are going to think about the crazy theories right away and dismiss them right away...thats the whole point.
Yes, and ditto for the 9/11 conspiracy theories. SOME people will just make up the craziest theories about it, and so if anyone hears the words "9/11 conspiracy", they will instantly think of those who say that NO people were killed and just roll their eyes and tune out -- whereas there are now over 3,000 architects and engineers who question the official story, at least in part. As I said in my first post, I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about individual conspiracy theories, but for people who keep an open mind, there is a LOT of info about this -- although, granted, I think there are more videos out there promoting "crazy" theories than there are from professionals who have actual data to back up their questions.
I think this is something like the scene in the movie "Victor/Victoria":
Toddy: This afternoon André Cassell will meet Europe's greatest female impersonator. André Cassell is the biggest agent in Paris.
Victoria: If I'm great, why hasn't he heard of me?
Toddy: You're the greatest, but you're unknown, except in Poland. You're Count Grazinski, Polish aristocrat. You speak very little English. Your family disowned you when they found out you're gay. We met in Warsaw, fell in love, I brought you to Paris.
Victoria: A woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman? It’s preposterous. You expect them to believe Count Grazinski, a gay, Polish, female impersonator?
Toddy: To convince an audience that an illusion is real, the magician creates a plausible diversion. Count Grazinski is our plausible diversion.
Victoria: Toddy, no audience is that gullible. They'll know he's a phony.
Toddy: Right.
Victoria: Well?
Toddy: They’ll know HE’s a phony.
So, although, of course, this is obviously not the same thing, people will sometimes divert attention from what they don't want other people to focus on by piling on extraneous and silly details. [Note: I condensed the above scene very slightly.]
P.S. I do, however (as I said before) become very angry about those people who say that no children were murdered at Sandy Hook. As I have said before, I just don't see how that could possibly be true. (But I admit that I have been wrong before and I have no doubt that I will be wrong again.)
Last edited by katharsis; 08-09-2018 at 12:14 PM..
Yes, and ditto for the 9/11 conspiracy theories. SOME people will just make up the craziest theories about it, and so if anyone hears the words "9/11 conspiracy", they will instantly think of those who say that NO people were killed and just roll their eyes and tune out -- whereas there are now over 3,000 architects and engineers who question the official story, at least in part. As I said in my first post, I don't want this thread to turn into a debate about individual conspiracy theories, but for people who keep an open mind, there is a LOT of info about this -- although, granted, I think there are more videos out there promoting "crazy" theories than there are from professionals who have actual data to back up their questions.
I think this is something like the scene in the movie "Victor/Victoria":
Toddy: This afternoon André Cassell will meet Europe's greatest female impersonator. André Cassell is the biggest agent in Paris.
Victoria: If I'm great, why hasn't he heard of me?
Toddy: You're the greatest, but you're unknown, except in Poland. You're Count Grazinski, Polish aristocrat. You speak very little English. Your family disowned you when they found out you're gay. We met in Warsaw, fell in love, I brought you to Paris.
Victoria: A woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman? It’s preposterous. You expect them to believe Count Grazinski, a gay, Polish, female impersonator?
Toddy: To convince an audience that an illusion is real, the magician creates a plausible diversion. Count Grazinski is our plausible diversion.
Victoria: Toddy, no audience is that gullible. They'll know he's a phony.
Toddy: Right.
Victoria: Well?
Toddy: They’ll know HE’s a phony.
So, although, of course, this is obviously not the same thing, people will sometimes divert attention from what they don't want other people to focus on by piling on extraneous and silly details. [Note: I condensed the above scene very slightly.]
P.S. I do, however (as I said before) become very angry about those people who say that no children were murdered at Sandy Hook. As I have said before, I just don't see how that could possibly be true. (But I admit that I have been wrong before and I have no doubt that I will be wrong again.)
The bolded is another one of those oft-repeated things that sounds good to people who don't know any better, but really isn't of much value at all. You have to remember that the World Trade Center was owned by a public transportation agency known for its engineering expertise, that hundreds of those engineers were in the building that morning, that some of them died, but most lived and went on to work on the pile and at the Fresh Kills sorting facility afterward, examine the structural components, participate in the collapse analysis, and review the draft reports before they were issued in final form.
Very few of those "3,000" in that organization, run by an architect who uses cardboard boxes to "demonstrate" the collapse of the buildings, are actually engineers. Back when the number was at 700, I ran through the list, and the only participant with any connection whatsoever to the WTC was a retired electrician who had worked on the original construction in the 1960s. You would take his word on a structural collapse analysis?
Meanwhile, in the years immediately following 9/11, engineering industry conferences were held all over the world to discuss the collapses, not with an eye toward covering up conspiracy theories, but rather with the goal of buildings safer structures with better life-safety features.
You've got your 3,000 petition signers on the Internet--some of whom might actually be engineers--and then you've got organizations like the American Society of Civil Engineers with 25,000 actual professional members who accept the collapse analysis as happening the way other engineers said it did. Choosing the architect with the cardboard-box demo on YouTube and his parade of motley followers seems...not smart.
Below are some current or recent popular conspiracy theories, but I am NOT asking for any kind of debate on any or all of them. I would just like to know how many of the following you think might have at least some truth to them because I am just curious as to whether most City Data P&OC posters are more skeptical toward conspiracy theorists or toward those whom the theorists accuse (mostly the U.S. government).
1. That the U.S. has intentionally started/created wars with other countries due to power and/or profit motives alone
2. That Franklin D. Roosevelt had advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack but allowed it to happen
3. That the U.S. covered up an alleged Roswell extraterrestrial crash and/or other extraterrestrial encounters
4. That the John F. Kennedy assassination was the result of a conspiracy and not just one man acting alone
5. That men did not land on the moon in 1969
6. That there is a current and active plot among some people in government to make the U.S. something other than what the "founding fathers" intended (Fascist, Socialist, Communist, whatever)
7. That the public school system and/or the mass media are actively and intentionally "dumbing down" many Americans
8. That both the government and the mass media have suppressed the truth about 9/11
9. That the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting either did not happen or was a false flag event
10. That there is a goal to greatly depopulate the world and possibly enslave much of remaining population (Agenda 21/Agenda 2030)
(I personally think that four of the above conspiracy theories are probably or actually true.)
Thanks in advance.
P.S. And, again, it is NOT my intention to start a debate on any of the above theories.
I believe there is something quite questionable with the powers that be with
1, 4, and 6.
The other stuff, No conspiracies. The general mainstream media's motives seem questionable anyway without the conspiracy arguments.
Conspiracy theories can make fascinating reading. I contend that if there is some sort of vast conspiracy effort going on in the background, the powers that be don't seem to be too "coordinated" with it, particularly if the movements are centuries old, which I highly doubt. Older movements to control the world to me seem very unlikely to exist in any form.
I believe there is something quite questionable with the powers that be with
1, 4, and 6.
The other stuff, No conspiracies. The general mainstream media's motives seem questionable anyway without the conspiracy arguments.
Conspiracy theories can make fascinating reading. I contend that if there is some sort of vast conspiracy effort going on in the background, the powers that be don't seem to be too "coordinated" with it, particularly if the movements are centuries old, which I highly doubt. Older movements to control the world to me seem very unlikely to exist in any form.
The idea has been around for a long time. When the shadow government stuff first started circulating around the Internet after 9/11, the first thing that came to mind was "Oh, this is Robert Ludlum." The secret cabal/shadow government was the theme of most of Ludlum's novels of the 70s and 80s.
Then I realized young adults now would have no idea who he was unless you told them he is the guy who originally created Jason Bourne.
"Ludlum's novels typically feature one heroic man, or a small group of crusading individuals, in a struggle against powerful adversaries whose intentions and motivations are evil and who are capable of using political and economic mechanisms in frightening ways. The world in his writings is one where global corporations, shadowy military forces and government organizations all conspired to preserve (if it was evil) or undermine (if it was law-abiding) the status quo."
The idea has been around for a long time. When the shadow government stuff first started circulating around the Internet after 9/11, the first thing that came to mind was "Oh, this is Robert Ludlum." The secret cabal/shadow government was the theme of most of Ludlum's novels of the 70s and 80s.
Then I realized young adults now would have no idea who he was unless you told them he is the guy who originally created Jason Bourne.
"Ludlum's novels typically feature one heroic man, or a small group of crusading individuals, in a struggle against powerful adversaries whose intentions and motivations are evil and who are capable of using political and economic mechanisms in frightening ways. The world in his writings is one where global corporations, shadowy military forces and government organizations all conspired to preserve (if it was evil) or undermine (if it was law-abiding) the status quo."
The idea of a shadow government has been around for a lot longer than Ludlum. He didn't invent the concept, merely used it as a plot device. You'd have to go back hundreds of years to find the original rumors of a shadow/secret government.
The idea of a shadow government has been around for a lot longer than Ludlum. He didn't invent the concept, merely used it as a plot device. You'd have to go back hundreds of years to find the original rumors of a shadow/secret government.
You are correct. I didn't mean to make it sound as if Ludlum invented the idea. He just boosted its presence in popular culture.
I'm sure such intrigue in power structure goes back to cave days.
1. That the U.S. has intentionally started/created wars with other countries due to power and/or profit motives alone -- Yes, definitely: Vietnam, Iraq, Mexican-American War
2. That Franklin D. Roosevelt had advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack but allowed it to happen -- Absolutely not. This one is silly.
3. That the U.S. covered up an alleged Roswell extraterrestrial crash and/or other extraterrestrial encounters -- This could go either way, need more evidence.
4. That the John F. Kennedy assassination was the result of a conspiracy and not just one man acting alone -- My hunch is the Soviets set it up (and Bobby too), but need more evidence to fully believe it. Putin is ex-KGB and has ordered assassinations. Seems to fit the KGB modus operandi.
5. That men did not land on the moon in 1969 -- Silly theory, beyond ridiculous
6. That there is a current and active plot among some people in government to make the U.S. something other than what the "founding fathers" intended (Fascist, Socialist, Communist, whatever) -- A little bit true, there was a well-documented effort by conservative groups to call a Constitutional convention if enough states turn red. Once you open a CC there's no limit on what can be changed.
7. That the public school system and/or the mass media are actively and intentionally "dumbing down" many Americans -- No.
8. That both the government and the mass media have suppressed the truth about 9/11 -- No.
9. That the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting either did not happen or was a false flag event -- This one insults both our intelligence and the Sandy Hook parents at the same time.
10. That there is a goal to greatly depopulate the world and possibly enslave much of remaining population (Agenda 21/Agenda 2030) -- Tin foil hat material.
BONUS
11. Climate change is a Chinese hoax -- LOL, I'll choose legitimate science over fake science pushed by the oil industry
12. QAnon -- What a joke. A fake guy on the internet spews fake stuff and people buy it.
13. Russia and Trump Conspired During the Election -- Circumstantial evidence supports it and there's a chance Mueller will prove it.
Below are some current or recent popular conspiracy theories, but I am NOT asking for any kind of debate on any or all of them. I would just like to know how many of the following you think might have at least some truth to them because I am just curious as to whether most City Data P&OC posters are more skeptical toward conspiracy theorists or toward those whom the theorists accuse (mostly the U.S. government).
1. That the U.S. has intentionally started/created wars with other countries due to power and/or profit motives alone
2. That Franklin D. Roosevelt had advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack but allowed it to happen
3. That the U.S. covered up an alleged Roswell extraterrestrial crash and/or other extraterrestrial encounters
4. That the John F. Kennedy assassination was the result of a conspiracy and not just one man acting alone
5. That men did not land on the moon in 1969
6. That there is a current and active plot among some people in government to make the U.S. something other than what the "founding fathers" intended (Fascist, Socialist, Communist, whatever)
7. That the public school system and/or the mass media are actively and intentionally "dumbing down" many Americans
8. That both the government and the mass media have suppressed the truth about 9/11
9. That the 2012 Sandy Hook shooting either did not happen or was a false flag event
10. That there is a goal to greatly depopulate the world and possibly enslave much of remaining population (Agenda 21/Agenda 2030)
(I personally think that four of the above conspiracy theories are probably or actually true.)
Thanks in advance.
P.S. And, again, it is NOT my intention to start a debate on any of the above theories.
Perhaps folks should study how conspiracy theories cultivate/captive people before we go any further. Generally there is some truth in the theory that then gets twisted with false information, projected assumption, and accusation of motives. It then becomes easier for certain people to believe in it because something within the theory will resonate with what they wish were true. It's not so unlike how psychics and tarot card readers deceive people.
So you're saying that any time someone thinks they are being followed, it has to be imaginary. That no one is ever really followed?
Sometimes someone is actually being followed!
And sometimes conspiracy theories arise out of the fact that there IS a conspiracy.
Take the JFK assassination which as I pointed out in an earlier post was said to be done by a lone nut. Yet more and more evidence surfaced that it was a conspiracy (i.e. more than one person involved) and then the House Assassinations committee thoroughly studied all the new surfaced evidence and said it WAS in fact a conspiracy.
The same with UFO's/Roswell. The reason there is a conspiracy theory is first and foremost because those who were there at the time - including Air Force officers - said it was not of this world. The townspeople went on record saying they were told NOT to talk about it. Tiny child-size caskets were ordered by the military to ship what? children flying the saucer? LOL - to Wright-Patterson... etc etc.
The theory of alien spacecraft was a direct result of the anecdotal evidence, eyewitnesses and military observers who were there.
Are ALL conspiracy theories true? Absolutely not!
But are SOME true? Yes.
Not ALL UFO's are of alien origin.
But are SOME UFO's of alien origin?
Yes.
Try reading at least 3-4 of the highly rated, more well researched books on UFO's and/or JFK's assassination, then come back and say these are "just another crazy conspiracy theory"!
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