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Old 04-01-2008, 10:10 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Greatday you know I rarely agree with you but I do agree with what you say here. I agree probably because you are right.

The stats are easy to look up but if I remember right we had 5 refineries 40 years ago. Today with the modern day huge demand we only have 3. The environmentalists (domestic terrorists) will not let us build any new ones or do any drilling. I guess they dont mind paying $5/gal.

We all know we have oil in Alaska. We all know Mexico is oil rich but they dont have the money or the technology to drill. And the corrupt govt will not let our oil companies come in at any bribery rate.

It's sad.............

But it is also bushys fault. No I will not capitalize his name due to lack of respect.
you had me up till the very last sentence..

What EXACTLY has Bush done to cause this, and what does a failure to capitalize his name have to do with a lack of respect for him, other then a lack of respect for grammer.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:56 AM
 
Location: USA - midwest
5,944 posts, read 5,581,700 times
Reputation: 2606
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
So far out of a dozen posts, not ONE of you have provided a real valuable source for your OPINION...
And yet, you consider your repetition of Limbaugh's EIB talking points to be valid.

"It's those darned environmentalists! Well, them and Clinton."
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,244,959 times
Reputation: 4686
A Republican favorite solution, building more refineries, will only put a bandaid on a problem. Why not drive more fuel-efficent vehicles to hold us over until we can advance to an alternative energy source? If everybody would trade their 12 mpg Excursion for something that got 28 mpg, just think of all the fuel we would save.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:15 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,827,174 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
But - the op misspoke -

He said EVERYONE agreed it was Bush's fault. That is not true. Not everyone has agreed it was / is Bush's fault -
They are not about to let facts get in the way of a good Bush bash.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,246,649 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
A Republican favorite solution, building more refineries, will only put a bandaid on a problem. Why not drive more fuel-efficent vehicles to hold us over until we can advance to an alternative energy source? If everybody would trade their 12 mpg Excursion for something that got 28 mpg, just think of all the fuel we would save.
Look - the fact is, even with "more fuel efficient" vehicles - we still will not have sufficent refining capacity.

Bandaid you say? Well - Bandaids do help heal wounds. We need more refining capacity - that is a fact. Yet, the enviornmental lobby stops this from happening.

We need more oil production - domestically. Yet, the enviornmentalist stop this from happening.

And realistically, as a percentage of vehicles on the road - very few are "Excursions" type vehicles.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:28 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
And yet, you consider your repetition of Limbaugh's EIB talking points to be valid.

"It's those darned environmentalists! Well, them and Clinton."
Considering that I dont listen to Limbaugh I'm left to wonder if your attempting to put me down by calling me another name and not argue facts.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,943 posts, read 17,244,959 times
Reputation: 4686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Look - the fact is, even with "more fuel efficient" vehicles - we still will not have sufficent refining capacity.

Bandaid you say? Well - Bandaids do help heal wounds. We need more refining capacity - that is a fact. Yet, the enviornmental lobby stops this from happening.

We need more oil production - domestically. Yet, the enviornmentalist stop this from happening.

And realistically, as a percentage of vehicles on the road - very few are "Excursions" type vehicles.
We won't be able to cure our oil addiction with more oil. Why do we need more oil production? So we can drive even bigger SUVs and commute from gated subdivisions even further from our jobs? What needs to happen is people need to cut consumption to react to supply. We need to be focused on conserving oil so there can be a smoother transition to life beyond oil. Right now we are headed for a hard landing sometime mid century, and its going to be a catastrophe unlike anything we've seen.

About ANWR, there is only enough oil in there to sustain our current oil consumption for a little over a year. That isn't much of a bandaid.
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,246,649 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
We won't be able to cure our oil addiction with more oil. Why do we need more oil production? So we can drive even bigger SUVs and commute from gated subdivisions even further from our jobs? What needs to happen is people need to cut consumption to react to supply. We need to be focused on conserving oil so there can be a smoother transition to life beyond oil. Right now we are headed for a hard landing sometime mid century, and its going to be a catastrophe unlike anything we've seen.

About ANWR, there is only enough oil in there to sustain our current oil consumption for a little over a year. That isn't much of a bandaid.
ANWR is not the only domestic source of oil that can be tapped.

We need more production to fill the needs of the American people - Fact is, there are lots of vehicles on the road - of all sorts and, unlike what you are trying to portray, not everyone has a gas guzzling SUV. I have two SUV's - both get 26mpg in town and near 30 on the road. And, they are fairly large (Volvo XC90's)

AND, your bias is clearly evident by seemingly belittling "gated communities". Again, nationwide, few live behind a gated community. So, perhaps your envy is unwarranted there.

Frankly, people need to drive. Not everywhere in the country has mass transportation. Not everyone can live "close to work". Our country runs on oil - that is a fact - and its not going to change for a very long time.

If you truly want to conserve oil - take all the big rigs off the Interstates. At 5 mpg, they go through far more oil than cars do - by far. Yet, I hear very little about taking them off the road.

If you want to conserve oil - get rid of the oil fueled heating systems - here in the west - we have none. But, in the Midwest and east coast - they are abundant. That would save 10's of 1000's of gallons of oil - yet, I hear only complaining about "SUV's" -
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:47 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
We won't be able to cure our oil addiction with more oil. Why do we need more oil production? So we can drive even bigger SUVs and commute from gated subdivisions even further from our jobs? What needs to happen is people need to cut consumption to react to supply. We need to be focused on conserving oil so there can be a smoother transition to life beyond oil. Right now we are headed for a hard landing sometime mid century, and its going to be a catastrophe unlike anything we've seen.

About ANWR, there is only enough oil in there to sustain our current oil consumption for a little over a year. That isn't much of a bandaid.
You know I'm left to wonder something.. In the 100+ years that we have been using oil, have we really not come up with a viable, man made option, thats really usable?
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:02 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,662 posts, read 3,827,174 times
Reputation: 580
Here's a novel idea: Let individuals decide where they wish to live and how far they wish to commute. Let individuals decide what type of car they wish to drive and what mpg they desire. Let individuals decide how they wish their goods transported and their homes heated.

How did we become a bunch of fascists telling people where they must live, type of car and how are homes must be heated? It's really not all that difficult a situation with endless solutions. If oil's such a concern the only viable alternatives are to slide back progress, open up new oil fields or use alternative energy sources. And the only alternative source today worth discussing is nuclear.
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