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Old 08-14-2018, 01:42 PM
 
Location: CA
1,716 posts, read 2,500,053 times
Reputation: 1870

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Do the math - how much lumber (read trees) will it take to re-build 1,600 destroyed structures (in ONE current CA fire)?

Forest fires, wind and even drought are not new - vastly increased tree density is.

"According to the California Forestry Association, tree density in the Sierra Nevada is too high when compared with the region's historical rates, creating an elevated fire hazard. It estimates there was an average of 40 trees per acre in the Sierras roughly 150 years ago but puts that number today at hundreds of trees per acre."

Article at CNBC.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/cali...fire-risk.html


Wind-blown embers that jump far ahead of the fire line and start new spot fires have long been the bane of firefighters in the American West. In extreme fire weather, the blaze can create its own winds and toss embers hundreds of feet — or even miles — ahead of the main blaze.

https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...embers_to.html
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Old 08-14-2018, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,524 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
According to you the mythical weather patterns could kill millions. Thousands seems like less.

Ban AC! Save the Desert!
Can you not read? I did not say millions, I said thousands.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:00 PM
 
Location: London
12,275 posts, read 7,133,491 times
Reputation: 13661
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Ban air conditioners. That will take care of idiots moving to the desert and then claiming some mythical weather pattern is threatening them.
It's getting hotter even in places that are nowhere near the desert, like Seattle.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,233 posts, read 26,172,300 times
Reputation: 15621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelva View Post
Do the math - how much lumber (read trees) will it take to re-build 1,600 destroyed structures (in ONE current CA fire)?

Forest fires, wind and even drought are not new - vastly increased tree density is.

"According to the California Forestry Association, tree density in the Sierra Nevada is too high when compared with the region's historical rates, creating an elevated fire hazard. It estimates there was an average of 40 trees per acre in the Sierras roughly 150 years ago but puts that number today at hundreds of trees per acre."

Article at CNBC.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/cali...fire-risk.html


Wind-blown embers that jump far ahead of the fire line and start new spot fires have long been the bane of firefighters in the American West. In extreme fire weather, the blaze can create its own winds and toss embers hundreds of feet — or even miles — ahead of the main blaze.

https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...embers_to.html
Even if that density figure is accurate from 150 years ago which I question elevated temperatures, droughts, and dry brush will not change. How do you maintain massive Forrest’s across the western states.

Too many solutions that ignore the obvious.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:16 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,795 posts, read 2,797,347 times
Reputation: 4925
Default Water seeks its level

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Even if that density figure is accurate from 150 years ago which I question elevated temperatures, droughts, and dry brush will not change. How do you maintain massive Forrest’s across the western states.

Too many solutions that ignore the obvious.
From the 1880s in the now-US West & Southwest? Rainfall & general water availability can be worked out from tree growth circles. In the 1870s in the US West & Southwest - there was relatively low population, nor massive water diversion (the Colorado River, etc.) nor dams/canals/pumps to pull up water from aquifers. The original Spanish colonization efforts in California failed for lack of water - which would still be the case, surface water in the southern & coastal CA is scarce, not enough to sustain farms nor populations.

Potable & irrigation water in CA is the result of massive engineering by the Army Corps of Engineers, & massive infrastructure projects - dating back to the Depression. Before all that was put into place, the forests & scrub grew naturally in the West & Southwest, on water from snowpack, rain. Water wasn't diverted away nor were dams in place to trap water for power generation. The forests & upland valleys with vegetation themselves helped retain water, & there weren't cattle/domesticated sheep/goats overgrazing the land.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:25 PM
 
25,840 posts, read 16,515,156 times
Reputation: 16024
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
It's getting hotter even in places that are nowhere near the desert, like Seattle.
Earth is 4.5 Billion years old. You have no idea what is normal for Seattle beyond 100 years.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:32 PM
 
13,684 posts, read 9,003,085 times
Reputation: 10405
I care not to read all of the responses.



However, we must recall that California is a very big state, with lots of forests. To proclaim that 'forest management' is to blame is nonsense from beginning to end. Lack of people, for one. Lack of desire, for another.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:00 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 7,098,252 times
Reputation: 5613
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover View Post
I have often wondered why they don’t conduct prescribed burns in California like we do here in the southeast. They do them during the winter months here, when it’s not so hot and it’s more easily controlled, of course wind and moisture has to be just right. There are many plants and animals here that depend on fire for survival.

It annoys me when people move down here and don’t understand why the forestry service does these burns, and then start complaining about the “air pollution”.
This is erroneous. Prescribed burns are done in CA, but it depends on the county, their policies, their resources, etc. There is an area near me, mostly grassland, that is burned almost every year. Grassland burns have to take place in the early summer, as the grass grows high in the winter and early spring, and becomes dry by June. Virtually all of California's rain is in the winter and early spring, so the grass grows only after those rains. There is seldom rain in the summer, so everything is dry all summer, usually until October. Grass land burns are much easier to control than woodland burns. Woodland burns also frequently bump into people who have built homes in the woods. The movement toward living in woodlands have hampered attempts to manage woodlands well. There is large emphasis placed on fire preparation by doing things like clearing brush around your house, keeping gutters clean, using fireproof roofing, etc., but not everyone pays much attention. In my county, there is a 20 foot band around the perimeter of all open space (greenbelt) areas that is mowed every year to decrease wild land fires from spreading to homes. It could be that the people who complain about prescribed burns are people who have moved from the interior of cities, and who have not noticed controlled burns being conducted in more rural areas.
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