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Old 08-12-2018, 08:25 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,247,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
It's amazing how people think that there are only 2 choices. "Starve or steal".

If my legs work, my arms work, I can walk and talk, why wouldn't I work so that I'm not starving? Why should my neighbor be forced to take care of me because I'm too lazy to get up off my backside and work?!
What if there's a labor surplus and you don't have any distinguishing skills? Presumably if you're at the point of starvation it's not simply because of laziness.

 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:26 PM
 
19,717 posts, read 10,109,755 times
Reputation: 13074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
It's amazing how people think that there are only 2 choices. "Starve or steal".

If my legs work, my arms work, I can walk and talk, why wouldn't I work so that I'm not starving? Why should my neighbor be forced to take care of me because I'm too lazy to get up off my backside and work?!
During the great depression, there was no work.
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:27 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,247,667 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDog View Post
Almost everyone would steal. Most would realize they were committing a crime. Simple risk vs reward rather than some deep moral issue.
Ok, I agree. Most people don't put philosophy in action.

How should you protect property rights then?
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:33 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,071 posts, read 10,089,802 times
Reputation: 17247
Of course I would respect property rights. I would offer whatever I could do to pay my way.... For a day of sustenance.

In other cultures and religions they make a distinction.

If a man wonders into your farm out of hunger, eats a few of your crop out of desperation. You are suppose to welcome him... Offer what he needs to see the next day.... Even if he was an enemy.

Not doing so was often considered a sin or at least a risk of being ostracized by your fellow community.

If a man sneaks into your farm takes more than he needs and tries to leave the farm with produce in hand, you are to consider him a trespasser and thief. You are free to deal with him accordingly.
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:33 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,888 posts, read 10,029,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
He says no, he doesn't need the help. What do you do?
Find someone else with a field that needs my help or shoot something in my own back yard and feed my family.
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:36 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,888 posts, read 10,029,032 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
What if there's a labor surplus and you don't have any distinguishing skills? Presumably if you're at the point of starvation it's not simply because of laziness.
If you're able to physically get onto your neighbor's land to steal food you're physically able to either catch or produce your own food OR provide enough work to someone that they'll feed you or pay you. You can what if this until the cows come home, I'll personally be eating hamburger while you come up with another excuse.
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:37 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,888 posts, read 10,029,032 times
Reputation: 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Ok, I agree. Most people don't put philosophy in action.

How should you protect property rights then?
With a dog, a rifle or a shotgun depending on how many people are trying to jump the fence and how far away they are.
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:37 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,247,667 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Of course I would respect property rights. I would offer whatever I could do to pay my way.... For a day of sustenance.

In other cultures and religions they make a distinction.

If a man wonders into your farm out of hunger, eats a few of your crop out of desperation. You are suppose to welcome him... Offer what he needs to see the next day.... Even if he was an enemy.

Not doing so was often considered a sin or at least a risk of being ostracized by your fellow community.

If a man sneaks into your farm takes more than he needs and tries to leave the farm with produce in hand, you are to consider him a trespasser and thief. You are free to deal with him accordingly.
Different people have different standards of need.

A selfish farmer could kill all trespassers, and feel justified.
A generous farmer could feed all indigent, and feel justified.

After a while, which farmer will still have a full storehouse?

How do make sure that a just outcome is reached?
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:38 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,247,667 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
With a dog, a rifle or a shotgun depending on how many people are trying to jump the fence and how far away they are.
Haha, your quip doesn't scale. Imagine the hungry outnumber you 100 to 1.
 
Old 08-12-2018, 08:41 PM
 
5,527 posts, read 3,247,667 times
Reputation: 7764
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
If you're able to physically get onto your neighbor's land to steal food you're physically able to either catch or produce your own food OR provide enough work to someone that they'll feed you or pay you. You can what if this until the cows come home, I'll personally be eating hamburger while you come up with another excuse.
That's not true though. For millennia the poor have vastly outnumbered the wealthy. And work has been in short supply. Possessing a work ethic is not all that it takes.

"Catch or produce your own food" All arable land is already owned within the areas you could migrate to, so wherever you try to forage or farm you'll be squatting.
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