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Old 08-18-2018, 05:04 PM
 
18,792 posts, read 8,401,221 times
Reputation: 4125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
There is a rationing and waiting problem, which can be fixed by the proposal in this thread.
Your idea is absurd with medicine as it stands today. We treat based on diagnosis, prognosis and medical standards of care, not ability to pay. When 2 patients show up in the ER at the same time, the most urgent is attended to.

The limits are and will be (or should be) in being able to provide the needed medical/surgical services. Not in any ability to pay. That will be the rationing basis in the future if we don't today provide the necessary medical infrastructure funding.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:06 PM
 
18,792 posts, read 8,401,221 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weichert View Post
The simple solution is to implement a Medicare For All universal HC system. And make it strictly voluntary. If a person doesn't want to enroll in it they don't have to. Purchase private health insurance in that case. And should a person have a medical problem and is not enrolled in some kind of insurance program, they go home when they run out of money.

Problem solved.
I would support a public option.

We also could have the very rich sign some form of waiver.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:10 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,610,245 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're still short $1.1 trillion
Needlessly complicating things. Gov. currently pays 2/3 of all medical costs in this country - out of debt and deficit- due to the slop drip, drip, drip of corporations and people lobbying because they understand they can't pay the real costs.

But even that doesn't matter

Calcs are very simple.

Take some fairly high priced 1st world health care like Germany. Add a little bit, because according to folks like you, the USA can't do thing as well as other countries. That puts us at $6500 per person time 320 million - or about 2.2 Trillion total dollars.

This would save much more than a trillion per year - or, looked at another way, would do away with the deficit completely and cover everyone. This is even without cutting down the Security State and vast numbers of other savings....

But, of course, we won't do it. The average American - especially the wealthy and connected - want to move costs off to someone else. Those who run this country could care less about sustainability.

If it were up to me I'd jail health care CEOs with 800 million dollar pensions. Treasonous...and directly responsible for killing other people. Oh, Rick Scott was heavily involved in the same stuff (Fraud).
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:10 PM
 
18,792 posts, read 8,401,221 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Of course it would. Other countries pay half of what we do and everyone is covered. Thats why the corrupt elites in charge who benefit from the current system are so vehemently against it, as their gravy train would come to a screeching halt.
IMO we would see the cost of many medical encounters go done by edict. But with more universal care we will see more unbundling and more total medical encounters as more patients get HC access for more problems. As I have said before, at any time in any medical community, much of sensible medicine is left undone. And much of that is do to coverage/access.

Total HC costs are not going down. i would stake my life on it.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:37 PM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,942,325 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Wow. Touchy, much?

I just thought it was funny that you would waste your own time replying to someone you don't read. If they are truly unworthy of effort on your part, why not just put them on ignore and be done with it? It IS ironic, and pointing that out is hardly "jumping on you." As for being a bit of a smarta**, I guess I am at times. It's a good release valve, and helps keep me from turning into a rageaholic.
Nope, not touchy at all, but don't mistake that for the fact that I'm going to sit here and let you try and make me look stupid when you were in fact 100% wrong about what you said. If you don't like my tone in my response, maybe revisit how you initiated this exchange. Still not ironic that you don't understand how reading and logic works. Just because I recognize something exists, certainly doesn't mean I've read it. Its a pretty simple premise to follow.

Last edited by t206; 08-18-2018 at 05:47 PM..
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:41 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,610,245 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post

Total HC costs are not going down. i would stake my life on it.
That's as easy a bet as

Our Security state will start spending less
or
Trump cares about the forgotten man and therefore wages will increase at least 15% over 4 years (over COL).....

and plenty of other bets.

But that doesn't mean these things aren't the right thing to do. We just don't do them. We pray at the altar of partisanship and money and selfishness and guaranteed profits...and people? They are just pawns in that game.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,904 posts, read 5,552,260 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru5555 View Post
The rest of the civilized word has proven otherwise.
As far as I am concerned, until we fix healthcare, you can remove the words "rest of" from that statement.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Gaston, South Carolina
15,697 posts, read 9,452,039 times
Reputation: 17597
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Can't agree with the OP. They don't want us to die until the last red cent has been wrung out of our pathetic IRAs, 401Ks and savings accounts - warehoused in some hellhole of a "skilled nursing facility" at $12,000 a month. That's what this game is all about.
I do see your point. Maybe a better way to say it would have been "it's cheaper for them if we suffer needlessly." But, really, I am not sure if it is cheaper that we die or suffer needlessly.

As I am still trying to get this insulin and other medicine that I need, I do suffer and it may end up with another visit to the hospital. At one point I was so dizzy the other night I almost fell. I don't know if the dizziness is caused by lack of insulin. It can be a symptom of low blood sugar (not likely this time) low blood pressure or just anxiety. Anxiety and depression can come from high blood sugar and can wreak havoc on someone's life.

I really wonder WWJI? Who would Jesus Insure? He never asked anyone He healed if they had a job or a pre-existing condition? he never told anyone to ask for handouts before He healed them. But now I probably unhinged some right winger on here.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:57 PM
 
18,792 posts, read 8,401,221 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
That's as easy a bet as

Our Security state will start spending less
or
Trump cares about the forgotten man and therefore wages will increase at least 15% over 4 years (over COL).....

and plenty of other bets.

But that doesn't mean these things aren't the right thing to do. We just don't do them. We pray at the altar of partisanship and money and selfishness and guaranteed profits...and people? They are just pawns in that game.
We will have to make some compromises as we continue our incremental heading towards more UHC. But to think HC costs will be coming down is absurd. HC costs will rise all over the modern and successful world. With our aging demographics, the costs of new technologies as we can treat and cure more serious maladies, and with more patients gaining access, how can they not?
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:04 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,919,102 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I would support a public option.

We also could have the very rich sign some form of waiver.
No, definitely no waiver for the rich. Wall Street isnt just mad because they have to fund something. They are also mad because they cant get their hands on something. Thats why there is such a relentless push to eliminate Social Security and hand it over to Wall Street. Even though SS has a cap on income subject to SS tax of $127 000 a year. Many of the think tanks we have today were started as part of that effort to eliminate the public safety net. Means testing the public safety net is also a crucial part in creating division and hatred between different groups and classes of people. If the poorest get something and the middle gets nothing, that creates resentment.
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