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Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Let me guess...
Is the difference between "Christ" and "Jesus" another one of these "facts" that "cannot be denied?"
Oops! Right. Back to the right or wrong of tax exemptions for churches...
I also wrote:
Quote:
However, there are services these faiths provide that the burden will fall on the government to pick up the slack. For all the money they may gain, by taxing the buildings, they loose when the taxes close the building and the services, food, shelter etc then falls on the cities and states to financially support the people. (btw: if the states have to then rely on the federal government to help fund the poor, then it becomes a federal constitutional case)
Over looking it so as to not engage isn't doing you any favors.
I also wrote:
Over looking it so as to not engage isn't doing you any favors.
I am not overlooking what else you comment about. I am simply having some fun addressing and/or asking questions about other things you write, things you might also argue "cannot be denied."
You're not doing yourself any favors by way of those notions either, but then again I don't think either of us is doing ourselves any favors commenting much more about one another's comments. No doubt I'm done doing so at least for today if not altogether going forward. Perhaps to do us both that favor...
First I've ever heard of the "Christian left." Probably because most who lean left are not inclined toward favoring any one religion over another or even religion in general out of respect for people of different faith, different beliefs. Oxymoron of sorts if you ask me...
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
I am not overlooking what else you comment about. I am simply having some fun addressing and/or asking questions about other things you write, things you might also argue "cannot be denied."
You're not doing yourself any favors by way of those notions either, but then again I don't think either of us is doing ourselves any favors commenting much more about one another's comments. No doubt I'm done doing so at least for today if not altogether going forward. Perhaps to do us both that favor...
By disengaging you're not do me any favors.
I do so hope that when people engage in the civics of their communities; when they convene at the ballot box, they do so with reason, rather than opinion ...
—“the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction.†TJ
For a good summary and background of TJ’s attitude toward the established Church, dissenting groups, and the relationship of church and state, see Malone, Jefferson, i, 274–80. This Bill, which TJ ranked with the Declaration of Independence, might indeed be considered as a necessary consequence of it: as the Declaration of Independence asserted the natural right of a people to choose any form of government conducive to their safety and happiness, so the Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom asserted the natural right of a person to choose his beliefs and opinions free of compulsion.
Your example is exactly the type of organization that I would argue deserves an offset, and continue to be exempt. I concur, just because I don't directly benefit, doesn't mean the community or society doesn't. There are some churches who make significant contributions to the community beyond the "spiritual" kind, and I, as an atheist, give kudos to them. [snip]
That church puts on a harvest supper for the whole village at a cost recovery price of only $10.00. The other church, the evangelical one, is never seen at community events.
One gives back, and gives back in spades, even though it is the smaller denomination, the other one hides in their own realm.
Big problem with this - who decides, and what are the thresholds? How do you determine which churches re "worthy" of a tax exemption and which are not? You might not think Church A gives back to the community, but its congregants, or its neighbors, or whoever might think it does.
Big problem with this - who decides, and what are the thresholds? How do you determine which churches re "worthy" of a tax exemption and which are not? You might not think Church A gives back to the community, but its congregants, or its neighbors, or whoever might think it does.
That is a good point, and worthy of discussion as to what the thresholds are.
I would suggest it be based on two things; dollars spent, and volunteer hours given. How much is the right amount? I would suggest that be dealt with in a separate discussion, the first thing it too agree and implement a mechanism that allows for property taxes.
The decision really needs to be made by the broader community, as they are the ones who need to carry the load of the property taxes the religious institutions do not pay. Again, why should the broader community have to pick up the share that those churches and mosques are not paying?
Yes you are and again you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Not according to what "fits my belief" but the rule of law, secular law as dictated by our constitution, whether I like the law or not.
There. That should do it.
"Thou Shalt Not Murder" is based in religion and secular. But all the same my argument was that everyone supports laws based upon their beliefs. Everyone.
Taxing church property, under States rights, does not establish a religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof. The building is not needed to have your faith; it is only ancillary.
What it does is then gives the church a say in who represents them. It allows a endorsements from the pulpit. We do not have taxation without representation.
If you want Churchs to pay taxes, be prepared for Churchs to unleash their political power of their faith. 501C's were designed to keep religions quiet.
What it does is then gives the church a say in who represents them. It allows a endorsements from the pulpit. We do not have taxation without representation.
How many companies get to vote that pay property taxes.
Let's give those churches a choice. You can either pay property taxes, or waive fire and police protection. That's fair, right?
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