Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-29-2018, 07:45 PM
 
1,675 posts, read 576,903 times
Reputation: 490

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
Because he had the vision and ability to raise capital to create Amazon, something the average Amazon worker isn't capable of. He's created hundreds of thousands of jobs. The average Amazon worker? Zero. How many jobs have you created? Job creation is much, much more important than the ability to shove a product into a box. This seems obvious - why are you confused?

He has destroyed as many if not more jobs that he created. That's his philosophy, sell under the market price, bankrupt the competition and then buy them. That's the "successful" model.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-29-2018, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,432,565 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo View Post
He has destroyed as many if not more jobs that he created. That's his philosophy, sell under the market price, bankrupt the competition and then buy them. That's the "successful" model.
It's not stable and limits access and freedom of work being as much of the capital used to practice labor are controlled by others (Bezos being one of the bigger problems).

But still, people will insist he deserves credit for controlling other people's work and taking their input as his own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2018, 08:36 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,023 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The term means nothing by itself if it is defined by giving control of your labor to the owners of the capital to do with as they see fit. The dynamic is the same, the words don’t change that.
The only one who controls the labor is the laborer himself. The laborer decides whether or not to accept a job. The laborer decides whether or not he's too ill to go into work. Etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2018, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,432,565 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The only one who controls the labor is the laborer himself. The laborer decides whether or not to accept a job. The laborer decides whether or not he's too ill to go into work. Etc.
The laborer, when deprived of rightful usage of the means of production, unable to practice their trade, must work for others.

As these others are less incentivized to offer the worker control over their own input, they are limited to giving their labor to someone else, and having the trade exploited to fill tasks that are not self-sustaining and are meaningless by themselves.

When options are so limited, giving people the freedom to choose is the same as telling them what to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2018, 11:04 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,455,322 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Amazon drivers in my area earn $16 an hour, as 1099 contractors with no benefits. UPS drivers in my area earn $36 an hour, full medical, dental, vision, life, paid vacations & pension. Bezos is just a hip, Sam Walton for the millennial generation. Destroying Main St, for the benefit of Wall St.
UPS Part Time Package Handler Hourly Pay. The typical UPS Part Time Package Handler salary is $11. Part Time Package Handler salaries at UPS can range from $8 - $20. This estimate is based upon 1,085 UPS Part Time Package Handler salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods.
Most UPS employees are seasonal and part time, and it's a lot of work for little money.


You know how hard it is to get on as a UPS driver? VERY
You know how hard it is to get on as an Amazon driver? NOT VERY
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2018, 11:41 PM
 
Location: SoFlo
981 posts, read 899,886 times
Reputation: 1845
i mean this seriously and without snark. i just cannot understand this. with amazon.com, bezos produced a completely new model for retail that could easily scale globally across all segments at high margin. he also turned that retail platform into a market dominant commercial cloud platform that is transforming the way companies do business. im not saying bezos didnt have some help from the government (mostly in the form of H1B visas), but the core driver of his success has been to PRODUCE new and innovative ways to consume products and do business -and oh yeah, PRODUCE 100k plus net new jobs. amazon would still be an incredibly successful company even if they had zero government assistance.

the real almost zero producers here are the politicians that are in the business of taking (not creating) our money to often times produce pretty much nothing. bernie could not have used a worse example to make his point and shows how clueless he is on this issue, and the tech industry in general. i work for another monster tech giant with many friends over at amazon. while they work a ton of hours, they cannot produce at the scale that bezos does. they might be writing lines of code or signing a big enterprise agreement but what they do on a daily basis cannot possibly produce what bezos can do in a day. he can spin up a new product for the enterprise that drives $20b in net new business. both are working hard but the output of what bezos does in a day is that much greater. ok, you can say well he now holds the capital and that puts him in a position to easily drive that impact with a single decision, and i would argue that bezos is unique in those innovative and organizational skills needed to execute new business models at massive scale - most of his employees could not do that. and none of my friends over at amazon with their $300-400k comp plans are crying over the pay disparity with bezos as their comp plan is structured to be heavily stock focused. a more accurate tweet would be every ten second bezos gets x% richer his employees get y% richer too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2018, 12:08 AM
 
Location: SoFlo
981 posts, read 899,886 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I am.

Furthermore I meant he had no (to my knowledge) skills in needs based production/services. These are things that keep a society health and running.

Managing capital is easy when you have tools at your disposal such as bribing state government for subsidies and outsourcing marketing, etc. to somewhere else.

Regardless, the company you see today is not run by Bezos, but by the workers in total, managing capital is only a worthwhile skill to those who value profit, not needs based production.

Tell me, do you really believe, even in the context of Amazon, that Bezos produces hundreds of times more than the average amazon worker per hour. Personally I would guess he has done none himself.
you have no idea (as does bernie) as to how the tech industry works, and yes i do think bezos produced hundreds of times more than the average worker. the foundation of these companies success is on continuous innovation, both from a technology and business model perspective—and bezos is actively leading all of this. without Bezo’s ideas there is no amazon at all, and certainly not one that continues to grow at amazons pace. a productive, visionary CEO is critical for ongoing success. look at tech companies that havent had great CEOs - e.g., travis kalanick at uber; or the ones seeing big growth after years of stagnation -e.g., satya nadella at microsoft. in my job, i have been able to witness some of these CEOs first hand. they are pulling 18 hour plus days as the norm, actively driving company strategy, and helping to structure and close major new sales opportunities all while flying around the world evangelizing their vision. they certainly arent sitting on their private yacht watching the money roll in. ok maybe larry ellison but he isnt ceo anymore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2018, 12:25 AM
 
Location: SoFlo
981 posts, read 899,886 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Much of his wealth he did not do anything to acquire. The Fed/Government created it for him.
huh? bezos created an online book retailer with funding from his job on wall street. seriously, i am not sure he had federal funding to do that. he then expanded that business (with his own ideas) to expand to become the world largest retailer, and in a very clever move leverage that cloud platform to build the world’s largest commercial cloud platform. government handouts and favors were not the key drivers of that. and i would love to see the data for median salaries of permanent employees. i know plenty making $300-400k as mid level managers and entry level engineer and architects in at least the $120k range.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2018, 12:55 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaucka View Post
huh? bezos created an online book retailer with funding from his job on wall street. seriously, i am not sure he had federal funding to do that. he then expanded that business (with his own ideas) to expand to become the world largest retailer, and in a very clever move leverage that cloud platform to build the world’s largest commercial cloud platform. government handouts and favors were not the key drivers of that.
It doesn't matter and that is completely irrelevant to my point. I am not discussing how the business was built. I'm discussing how his wealth was derived.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2018, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,458,447 times
Reputation: 12318
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaucka View Post
huh? bezos created an online book retailer with funding from his job on wall street. seriously, i am not sure he had federal funding to do that. he then expanded that business (with his own ideas) to expand to become the world largest retailer, and in a very clever move leverage that cloud platform to build the world’s largest commercial cloud platform. government handouts and favors were not the key drivers of that. and i would love to see the data for median salaries of permanent employees. i know plenty making $300-400k as mid level managers and entry level engineer and architects in at least the $120k range.
Yeah I don’t see the government connection either in Amazon’s success .

Those are amazing salaries of course and that’s why so many dozens of cities have petitioned for Amazon to open their second HQ in their city .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:10 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top