Allen Weisselberg, Trump Organization CFO, Granted Immunity In Cohen Investigation (federal, status)

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by loves2read

What would you consider viable proof Trump knew and agreed??
To Russian hacking for example?

Proof requires evidence to support the allegation

No shortage of opinions on both sides of this issue. Opinions are not facts.

No one outside the investigation knows what they have or not and they don’t leak.

[r small]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

I think if Jared / Ivanka / Don Junior were threatened with jail and he could somehow save their hides by resigning, he would.

I'm not so sure. I've never seen anything about trump to indicate he would sacrifice anything for the sake of others. Even his own family. But hopefully we'll get to find out.

[trobesmom]

Originally Posted by Cruithne

I think if Jared / Ivanka / Don Junior were threatened with jail and he could somehow save their hides by resigning, he would.

I don't know that he would. But who knows? Maybe for Ivanka.

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould

Which leads me to wonder why immunity for the CFO to go after Cohen?

Seems that the CFO would be the bigger fish in this pairing.

Nope. The board of directors is the big fish. I don’t think Trump himself is still on the board though.

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

I feel like you let a lot of air out of the balloon.

However, the big airship named Hope is still floating as long as Mueller hasn't wrapped up his investigation.

Mueller must see a good reason to keep it alive.

Along that line, an excellent and very in-depth look into how Mueller operates. No hyperbole, no drama, by the book, follow the law - even when he disagrees with it. Let the documents do the talking. Mueller would have never done what Comey did - speak publicly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/u...gtype=Homepage

For people who can read and comprehend, no doubt there will be plenty in the report to talk about.

Will it be a "bombshell" - probably not in the sense people are hoping.

In other words:

“He’s going to find out what there is to find out, and he’s going to say it in the most straightforward, neutral way possible,” Ms. Arguedas said. “And then he’s going to walk away, because his job will be done. He won’t go on any talk shows, and he won’t write a book.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/u...gtype=Homepage

[Threerun]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

No. So far, Weisselberg hasn't been charged with anything. Cohen was and Mueller wants to know what Weisselberg knows about Cohen.

Weisselberg is a bookkeeper - not a decisionmaker. People way are way overestimating the value of the Weisselberg immunity.

Read this - from WaPo:The Feds zeroed in on Weisselberg as a witness because of the Cohen tapes. Weisselberg is being used as corroboration for Cohen's testimony. In the process he was granted immunity - SOP.

Weisslberg isn't going to be doing much other than confirming what prosecutors already know. He definitely hasn't "flipped" nor is he guilty of anything - yet.

Because they don't have anything on Weisselberg - who was not a decisionmaker, instead an expeditor. He followed orders. Weisselberg is just a witness to the Cohen actions.

No. People are overinflating the import/value of the Weisselberg immunity, imo. He will confirm only what he is asked - i.e., did Cohen contact him about the payments, etc.. - not volunteer what prosecutors don't know.

Now, if he were actually charged with a crime and granted immunity, then he might talk.

Everything I've read about him - he is volunteering nothing - the immunity is standard in cases like this but in no way implies he is a target or a cooperator. He isn't.


They won't get a thing from him other than to confirm what Mueller already knows.

Weisselberg's ties to the family are long and very deep - going back over 40 years. He is much loved by all of them. He will never be a cooperator - unless the feds decide to start digging to find something really incriminating. Doesn't sound like they intend to do that.

I don’t see it that way. One doesn’t ‘get’ immunity on something they have already been implicated on ( Cohen already released the tape and lord knows what else ) unless they give something up upstream.

He has to give something pretty damn important to be granted immunity.

And even if that IS NOT the case- it’s pretty apparent he’ll squawk when squeezed.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by Threerun

I don’t see it that way. One doesn’t ‘get’ immunity on something they have already been implicated on ( Cohen already released the tape and lord knows what else ) unless they give something up upstream.

He has to give something pretty damn important to be granted immunity.

And even if that IS NOT the case- it’s pretty apparent he’ll squawk when squeezed.

There are apparently two kinds/types of immunity--
Everyone knows about the 5th Amendment and the right under US law NOT to self-incriminate...
Meaning that prosecutors can't compel someone to go on the witness stand at a Grand Jury or in court and give testimony that proves the person making the statement was involved with or committed something the prosecution is claiming is illegal---on any level--city prosecutor, state prosecutor, federal prosecutor...
That is why Manafort could not be compelled to testify at his trial and claim Rick Gates was the devil who made Paul Manafort do all those illegal actions...
HIS ATTORNEYS made those statements to defend him---but Manafort, nor his wife (who was also implicated as co-owner of some offshore accounts and on the tax returns)--neither of them could be MADE to testify. Unless the prosecution was offering immunity--
And at that stageMueller wasn't doing that...

What a prosecutor can do is give someone "limited" immunity so they can't SELF-INCRIMINATE when investigating crimes that involve more than one person...
In this case--at the Grand Jury investigating Cohen's situation for the tax/bank fraud and the campaign violations--Weisselberg and Pecker were corroborating witnesses --- to say that YES, Cohen's account was accurate--they were involved in setting up the payoffs for Daniels and McDougal, and that TRUMP was spearheading both of these actions...

Weisselberg and Pecker obviously thus self-incriminated themselves by giving that testimony.
They did not stand on their 5th Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination because the SDNY forced immunity on them---
Like someone giving you as a birthday present a tie or shirt that you absolutely hate but have to wear because you can't avoid looking like it makes you happy....
They may not have wanted to cooperate---from accounts out there they DIDN'T want to do that
But they also didn't want to accept the ONLY other option--
To go to jail for contempt of court---

the SDNY's action of giving them immunity said you have no NEED to claim the 5th--you aren't going to be harmed by your statement, YOU can thus be compelled to testify.

They chose to give the corroborating testimony against Cohen--but that also damages Trump and themselves...
They can't be punished for THOSE limited acts--
but because SDNY and other Govt agencies are not prohibited from enlarging the Cohen investigation to include other illegal acts, these initial ones can become part of a pattern of corruption. They can also be used as justification to investigate the Trump corporation for illegal practices because of this evidence....or AMI/National Enquirer or anyone implicated.

SDNY and likely other levels of prosecutors see this as a warning shot across the bows of a larger engagement.

The media hearing the word "immunity" AFTER the Cohen plea for Pecker and his head of media and for Weisselberg put the cart before the horse...because they either didn't ask the right questions or just thought this was strong story line...

Can Weisselberg be in greater jeopardy in future?
Sure---but it will take a different scope of investigation...
They might decide to make him go through this every time they want to charge Cohen with other illegal acts as they go through the reams of information taken during the no-knock search...
They might go more stealth like Mueller and keep further investigation outside the limelight---
Trump Corp itself had a LOT of damaging documents seized in Cohen's raid
Very small amount of that was ruled off-limits to SDNY because it WAS attorney-client priviledged.
So SDNY has plenty to research w/o having to get a new no-knock warrant on Trump Corp--

How would that go down though if they did???
Showed up and just stopped the work of the Trump Corp and froze everything to get company documents that might not be produced if a subpoena was issued....
because subpoenas allow the party being served to decide what is germain to produce...
and criminals rarely and willingly turn over the good stuff w/o a fight...

[loves2read]

I would like to point out that Mike Flynn's immunity deal--where the time line for sentencing has been moved back at least once--is much more voluntary--
Apparently (from couple of stories out there) Flynn was practically begging to have his son granted immunity if Flynn would cooperate and give evidence in various aspects of illegal acts.
This type of immunity is usually what people think of when they hear grants of immunity.
This is NOT what Pecker, Weisselberg, and Pecker's VP got...

Flynn's sentencing being moved back has some people speculating that new avenues of information are being developed that Flynn can give insight/corroborating testimony about.
Once his sentence is certified--not only does he have to allocate as to what he is pleading to and granted immunity for--but it kinds of shuts the door on that closet of testimony. They would have to start a new plea deal if other areas needed Flynn's cooperation/testimony.

People seem to have forgotten about Flynn--because he wasn't mentioned in the Manafort trial maybe...
But Flynn (IMO) is a big sword of Damocles hanging over Trump and Pence and others' heads

[Sactown4]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

No. So far, Weisselberg hasn't been charged with anything. Cohen was and Mueller wants to know what Weisselberg knows about Cohen.

Weisselberg is a bookkeeper - not a decisionmaker. People way are way overestimating the value of the Weisselberg immunity.

Read this - from WaPo:The Feds zeroed in on Weisselberg as a witness because of the Cohen tapes. Weisselberg is being used as corroboration for Cohen's testimony. In the process he was granted immunity - SOP.

Weisslberg isn't going to be doing much other than confirming what prosecutors already know. He definitely hasn't "flipped" nor is he guilty of anything - yet.

Because they don't have anything on Weisselberg - who was not a decisionmaker, instead an expeditor. He followed orders. Weisselberg is just a witness to the Cohen actions.

No. People are overinflating the import/value of the Weisselberg immunity, imo. He will confirm only what he is asked - i.e., did Cohen contact him about the payments, etc.. - not volunteer what prosecutors don't know.

Now, if he were actually charged with a crime and granted immunity, then he might talk.

Everything I've read about him - he is volunteering nothing - the immunity is standard in cases like this but in no way implies he is a target or a cooperator. He isn't.


They won't get a thing from him other than to confirm what Mueller already knows.

Weisselberg's ties to the family are long and very deep - going back over 40 years. He is much loved by all of them. He will never be a cooperator - unless the feds decide to start digging to find something really incriminating. Doesn't sound like they intend to do that.

This is good analysis as it related tothe Cohen case, but Weisselberg is really going to come into play later.
If SDNY and the Manhattan DA file suit against the Trump Org, or the fake charity, there's not much that Weisselberg could do to protect Trump.
They're going to get access to all of the financial documents, and Weisselberg is not going to perjure himself when the proof is easily accessible.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Proof requires evidence to support the allegation

No shortage of opinions on both sides of this issue. Opinions are not facts.

No one outside the investigation knows what they have or not and they don’t leak.

No--really--in your mind you probably have some criteria for truth and accuracy...

Give some type of situation that could prove Trump knew and wanted Russian participation--
Even if it would not GUARANTEE he would win---just the participation of Russian hackers and propaganda agencies putting their efforts into the American electoral sandbox...in support of Trump...

For me it is like the definition of "pornography"---you know it when you see it...but I am thing it probably won't be a recorded phone call--more's the pity...but a complication of circumstantial evidence and testimony from people about what they were told or heard or saw people doing that may not have direct corroboration...
Something that if you wanted to drive a wedge of disbelief (unreasonable doubt) between them and certitude, then people could claim it wasn't enough---it wasn't real---it wasn't "proof"...

Frankly, my fear based on what I see coming from the alt-right, truly-nutty conspiracy groups active online and in person (see the weird conspiracy actions against Sweet Jesus ice cream as example) is that there is NOTHING Mueller or SDNY or anyone can produce to prove to all Americans that Trump is guilty of this treason...

I won't go to those websites, read those blogs, given them any kind of click-bait satisfaction that they have my attention----because they thrive on that...
But you can see stories in main stream media -- mainly to highlight how ridiculous it is--
But those groups don't care---they got the notice and it makes them spin even faster...
And sometimes I wonder who is really stirring them up--outside agitators who know how easy it is to spin them?

This is the sickly strain that used to grow in bedrooms and basements and rarely saw large scale support
The Internet has become their Petri dish...the mold is growing in alarming density in various hotspots
And I don't know if there is any way to prevent it spreading more mainstream like kudzu...until it suffocates most of American thought...