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This is true. Many Blacks do have conservatives views on specific issues, but not across the border. Most Blacks are not embracing CONSERVATISM as a whole. I have some conservative views on a few issues, but I'm not into conservativism as an ideology. Alot of African-Americans do not see conservatism as being a benefit for them, especially when you bring up what conservative means. Conservatism meaning "to conserve". What is is that is desired to be conserved?
Historically, Blacks have always been at the bottom. Black Americans are still the most looked down on ethnic group in America. Being at the bottom, there isn't much worth conserving. Whenever I hear "Make America Great Again", I have to ask "when did America stop being great"? "When was America at its best"? And in the case of Black people, who was it great for? Before the late 1960s, it was not very good for Blacks in America, especially compared to the rest of America's population.
I would agree that because of history, there is a distrust for conservatism among alot of Black Americans.
Yep. Of course we know what the Republican party is on and their conservatism. One doesn't have to say the N-word to your face to know how they feel about you. There is absolutely zero chance the Republican party will ever do anything substantial for black Americans. They hardly do anything for white Americans. It's largely ran by the super wealthy of the conservative side. It's the big business party, and we certainly know there are no black people in that aspect of life. Our wealthiest black DOS is Oprah, and she is a media personality. She owns no land. She doesn't produce anything. Her wealth is fickle. In fact, most of our "wealthy" are nothing but personalities in the sports and entertainment world. Yet in any case, black people have absolutely no sway in anything concerning the Republican party.
Now the wealthy have influence in the Democratic party as well, but we actually have a chance to do transformative politics here. We can return to the age of the New Deal, this time including and featuring black DOS, in the Democratic party. These ideas are more acceptable here.
I personally do not feel there is much of a difference either between political parties and especially not on issues of importance to black Americans IMO.
I am an independent. I consider myself a moderate. I have some liberal and some conservative views - most of my conservative views deal with fiscal management but in recent history, IMO the Democrats actually are more fiscally conservative than the Republicans.
Personally, I do not believe that either party is more or less racist. I think both of our political parties push racial inferiority ideas about black people - both liberals and conservatives do so as well no matter the party one adheres to.
Again, as many different "Blacks are coming around on Trump" and "Trump loves African-American" threads that are created here....
Donald Trump got less than 10% of the black vote in 2016. That's the most telling statistic about the relationship between Black America and Donald Trump.
Interesting. I fell the same as you on behalf of black people, and as a white person.
It does seem that many in the media just assumes all black people are the same as far as political thinking and ideology. But of course, why on earth would that be the case? Black people can disagree with each other on just about any topic.
It is also interesting to observe the Kanye incident and Candace Owens and so forth from the "outside", meaning as a white guy who probably doesn't get it a lot of the time. I've also been enjoying listening to The Glenn Show, a podcast on race, society, culture and politics by a Genuine Black Guy™ who I consider to be one of the great thinkers of our day. It is fascinating to hear and see such diversity of option within the black community, very little of which is hinted at in today's media.
Just wanted to note on this post that per your mentioning of The Glenn Show, that black people have always had our own media that displays our various points of view and includes lots of discussions on topics of importance and current events from a black American perspective.
Most of the posters here and IMO most white Americans in particular are not aware of our historic and present media and how we interact, disagree with, and compromise with each other and work together regardless of our differences of opinions - also that we are very forgiving of our people when they say and/or do something that a large amount of us may not like or agree with. These posters and America in general primarily follow mainstream media (and IMO today too many black Americans also primarily follow mainstream media) and so they are tricked into believing that we, as black people, have inferior minds and no diverse thoughts within our demographic, which is totally untrue.
On the bold, recently on Chicago Talk Radio (WGCI) Kanye West, again made an apology for his comments regarding slavery in particular. He also was embraced, as he always has been by the black community of Chicago and he is well aware of the fact, that overall black Americans do not view him in any overt, negative fashion. He does not have a history of denigrating black people. On Candace Owens, I cannot make the same statement. She actually does, regularly denigrate and perpetuate stereotypes of black people.
By and large, we as a demographic, do not like it when "our own" work against us by perpetuating stereotypes, portraying false negatives, and allowing themselves to be used by prejudiced people to be a voice for us. We as a demographic are highly aware that we don't all think alike, that we have different political POVs, that we run the range from crazy, uber progressive/socialist leaning left wing supporting individual to crazy, ultra conservative/fascist/dictatorial leaning, religious dogma preaching right wing supporting individuals. Most of us primarily overtly dislike people who denigrate our demographic and perpetuate stereotypes of black people - like Candace Owens is doing and others like her. But, if she came on a black media outlet tomorrow and apologized for her words and sought to re-join mainstream black America and she was authentic and honest about that - she would be welcomed back. We are very forgiving and we embrace our community members and will take up for them once they right their wrongs.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 08-30-2018 at 10:22 AM..
When it comes to black people, both parties are the same, only one pretends to speak for us. That is the democrats of course. The republicans can't fake their hate.
Ultimately the democratic party still look for black votes. With Hillary's lost and more progressive ideas beginning to creep up, the democratic party is reeling right now. If black Americans DOS get their mind set, we can re-shape the party as a whole. We can tell them, "If you ever want to win another election, you better give us a detailed plan for the black community." The litmus test is what is their view on reparations. Yea or nay? If no, begone with you. This should be the political strategy of black folk.
On this, I'll note as I have before on this forum that many black Americans are not all that concerned with reparations as a policy initiative.
I think this focus depends on the individual and what he/she focuses on in regards to the history and trajectory of our demographic. History tells us that the government of this nation has never looked out for us. I personally would not trust the government to do anything of value via reparations programs for black Americans and IMO the government would use these programs to try to paint a negative view of blacks in this nation (see the Moynihan Report which was originally created under the guise of helping black people but which people used to shift the focus away from racial oppression of the demographic to one of inherent demographic inferiority for blacks in this nation)
On political activism, I'd encourage you to read about SNCC and Stokely Carmichael and their campaign in the 1970s to either start a black political party (which failed) or to take over in areas with a large black population one of the two major political parties. This was the basis of 1970s black activism - the focus on political infiltration of local, state and federal government positions in areas with large black populations. They focused on the Democratic party. Democrats being "progressive" is not the historical basis of black people voting in large numbers for the party. The historical basis is the fact that in the modern era, black candidates ran as Democrats. This, in turn caused black people to vote for Democrats in large numbers as many black people felt - and still feel that being black trumps political party/ideology and IMO this is still the case and was the reason why Colin Powell for instance, and a significant amount of black Republicans I know voted for and supported Obama - him being black and the other side engaging in racial rhetoric made them trust him more than Hillary Clinton or John McCain or Romney.
Contrary to what a lot of black people like to claim, if you look at it from a factual perspective - black people are similar to other ethnic groups in that we often support candidates who are of our ethnic background and community versus an "outsider." This was the case for the Irish, Italians, Jews, Germans, and various other European Americans and is still the case for the Hispanic and Asian communities as well - yet the right especially and even some factions of the left like to be bothered about the strength of unity amongst black people, voters, and our communities over "outsiders." They are not as negative toward other communities and especially weren't and never will be against the white/European descended Americans and their voting blocks based on ethnic origins and religion (Jews and Catholics especially but also today the "religious right" is primarily unified based on Protestantism ideas/values within that religious community - the see this as okay but don't see black people supporting black candidates as okay).
On this, I'll note as I have before on this forum that many black Americans are not all that concerned with reparations as a policy initiative.
I think this focus depends on the individual and what he/she focuses on in regards to the history and trajectory of our demographic. History tells us that the government of this nation has never looked out for us. I personally would not trust the government to do anything of value via reparations programs for black Americans and IMO the government would use these programs to try to paint a negative view of blacks in this nation (see the Moynihan Report which was originally created under the guise of helping black people but which people used to shift the focus away from racial oppression of the demographic to one of inherent demographic inferiority for blacks in this nation)
On political activism, I'd encourage you to read about SNCC and Stokely Carmichael and their campaign in the 1970s to either start a black political party (which failed) or to take over in areas with a large black population one of the two major political parties. This was the basis of 1970s black activism - the focus on political infiltration of local, state and federal government positions in areas with large black populations. They focused on the Democratic party. Democrats being "progressive" is not the historical basis of black people voting in large numbers for the party. The historical basis is the fact that in the modern era, black candidates ran as Democrats. This, in turn caused black people to vote for Democrats in large numbers as many black people felt - and still feel that being black trumps political party/ideology and IMO this is still the case and was the reason why Colin Powell for instance, and a significant amount of black Republicans I know voted for and supported Obama - him being black and the other side engaging in racial rhetoric made them trust him more than Hillary Clinton or John McCain or Romney.
Contrary to what a lot of black people like to claim, if you look at it from a factual perspective - black people are similar to other ethnic groups in that we often support candidates who are of our ethnic background and community versus an "outsider." This was the case for the Irish, Italians, Jews, Germans, and various other European Americans and is still the case for the Hispanic and Asian communities as well - yet the right especially and even some factions of the left like to be bothered about the strength of unity amongst black people, voters, and our communities over "outsiders." They are not as negative toward other communities and especially weren't and never will be against the white/European descended Americans and their voting blocks based on ethnic origins and religion (Jews and Catholics especially but also today the "religious right" is primarily unified based on Protestantism ideas/values within that religious community - the see this as okay but don't see black people supporting black candidates as okay).
Agreed, it seems to be human nature to root for one's tribe. Not so much as a dislike of others but wanting to see one's tribe prosper.
Again, as many different "Blacks are coming around on Trump" and "Trump loves African-American" threads that are created here....
Donald Trump got less than 10% of the black vote in 2016. That's the most telling statistic about the relationship between Black America and Donald Trump.
It was about 8% I believe? I could be wrong. But I'm agreeing, there seems to be a lot of threads here about black people that really don't give a damn about the perspective from black people (the exception being those tokens who would throw black people under the bus for a pack of gum).
On this, I'll note as I have before on this forum that many black Americans are not all that concerned with reparations as a policy initiative.
I think this focus depends on the individual and what he/she focuses on in regards to the history and trajectory of our demographic. History tells us that the government of this nation has never looked out for us. I personally would not trust the government to do anything of value via reparations programs for black Americans and IMO the government would use these programs to try to paint a negative view of blacks in this nation (see the Moynihan Report which was originally created under the guise of helping black people but which people used to shift the focus away from racial oppression of the demographic to one of inherent demographic inferiority for blacks in this nation)
On political activism, I'd encourage you to read about SNCC and Stokely Carmichael and their campaign in the 1970s to either start a black political party (which failed) or to take over in areas with a large black population one of the two major political parties. This was the basis of 1970s black activism - the focus on political infiltration of local, state and federal government positions in areas with large black populations. They focused on the Democratic party. Democrats being "progressive" is not the historical basis of black people voting in large numbers for the party. The historical basis is the fact that in the modern era, black candidates ran as Democrats. This, in turn caused black people to vote for Democrats in large numbers as many black people felt - and still feel that being black trumps political party/ideology and IMO this is still the case and was the reason why Colin Powell for instance, and a significant amount of black Republicans I know voted for and supported Obama - him being black and the other side engaging in racial rhetoric made them trust him more than Hillary Clinton or John McCain or Romney.
Contrary to what a lot of black people like to claim, if you look at it from a factual perspective - black people are similar to other ethnic groups in that we often support candidates who are of our ethnic background and community versus an "outsider." This was the case for the Irish, Italians, Jews, Germans, and various other European Americans and is still the case for the Hispanic and Asian communities as well - yet the right especially and even some factions of the left like to be bothered about the strength of unity amongst black people, voters, and our communities over "outsiders." They are not as negative toward other communities and especially weren't and never will be against the white/European descended Americans and their voting blocks based on ethnic origins and religion (Jews and Catholics especially but also today the "religious right" is primarily unified based on Protestantism ideas/values within that religious community - the see this as okay but don't see black people supporting black candidates as okay).
This is where black people really need to understand their history and how well they were locked out for hundreds of years. You see when it comes to reparations, I know what I want to be done. You've mentioned you wouldn't trust the government on handling reparations, and I agree with that if they laid out how it was to be done. Yet a knowledgeable black population of their history will negotiate what is to be done concerning these policies. Reparations wouldn't just be a check, as most think about it. We would negotiate the check, institution building, debt relief, low/no interest rate home and businesses loans, free tuition, etc. We are looking at a "New Deal" for black Americans DOS. A wholesale investment, equal to the bailouts of 2007 onward that Wall Street bankers and other industries got.
Also as you mentioned concerning voting for black people because they're black, that has to stop. Especially black people who have absolutely no real link to black descendants of slaves. Obama, the child of a Kenyan immigrant and white mother. Did absolutely jack for black people. Now the Democrats are pushing Kamala Harris on us, the child of a Jamaican doctor who was raised by her Indian mother. Come on man! Of course even if they were black DOS, like Oprah , we still shouldn't vote for them because they are black. When it comes to us, we need people who have a deep understanding of black life in this country. Who not only knows the history, but see the present day results of that history. I don't care if they are black or white, they need to understand the history and seek to correct it.
We can learn from Carmichael's attempt to create a political party, and I'm interested in learning more about him. If we can't push these transformative politics through the Democratic party, then another one need to be made. We've been a two party system for too long in this country, and it's apparent to me now things are getting worse. It's getting worse for everyone, but black people are about to be wiped out. Doomed to be a permanent underclass. Once our baby boomers pass on, black people will have zero wealth to their name, and no ability to climb out of the hole. I'm saying this based on history and based on current day numbers projected forward.
This is where black people really need to understand their history and how well they were locked out for hundreds of years. You see when it comes to reparations, I know what I want to be done. You've mentioned you wouldn't trust the government on handling reparations, and I agree with that if they laid out how it was to be done. Yet a knowledgeable black population of their history will negotiate what is to be done concerning these policies. Reparations wouldn't just be a check, as most think about it. We would negotiate the check, institution building, debt relief, low/no interest rate home and businesses loans, free tuition, etc. We are looking at a "New Deal" for black Americans DOS. A wholesale investment, equal to the bailouts of 2007 onward that Wall Street bankers and other industries got.
Also as you mentioned concerning voting for black people because they're black, that has to stop. Especially black people who have absolutely no real link to black descendants of slaves. Obama, the child of a Kenyan immigrant and white mother. Did absolutely jack for black people. Now the Democrats are pushing Kamala Harris on us, the child of a Jamaican doctor who was raised by her Indian mother. Come on man! Of course even if they were black DOS, like Oprah , we still shouldn't vote for them because they are black. When it comes to us, we need people who have a deep understanding of black life in this country. Who not only knows the history, but see the present day results of that history. I don't care if they are black or white, they need to understand the history and seek to correct it.
We can learn from Carmichael's attempt to create a political party, and I'm interested in learning more about him. If we can't push these transformative politics through the Democratic party, then another one need to be made. We've been a two party system for too long in this country, and it's apparent to me now things are getting worse. It's getting worse for everyone, but black people are about to be wiped out. Doomed to be a permanent underclass. Once our baby boomers pass on, black people will have zero wealth to their name, and no ability to climb out of the hole. I'm saying this based on history and based on current day numbers projected forward.
Not to be vain, but I am pretty knowledgeable about black American history compared to most Americans.
And we've (you and I) had a discussion on the forum before about the fact that if provided, I would support a reparations program and not a check/money being paid. However, I don't believe that this will occur in my lifetime (or ever) and I am not basing my situation (personal, economic, family, health, education of my children, etc) on getting reparations.
I'll be honest in that many of your posts don't reflect an overwhelming knowledge of black American history and that is not meant as a knock as I don't believe that many Americans in general are very knowledgeable about black American history.
But from an historical perspective, we have always primarily looked out for and advocated for and gained ground in this nation, our nation, via our own work/action and our successes have always been because of us and not because of some outside, governmental factors. Even the passage of laws/initiatives that were to benefit our demographic, from an historical perspective, they were not successful unless we STILL were active and agitated for those laws/initiatives to be put into place. In today's moment, I'd dare say that 95% of what our ancestors advocated and agitated for us to have - those things actually are available to us as a whole: voting rights, housing rights, rights to education, rights to protection of the law - I'd argue it is still not "equal protection" however, opportunity to rise based off of individual goals/actions versus steered toward a stereotypical education/job/career and many other basic things that we, in this generation often take for granted.
There is a new-er Nas song (rapper) that I like. One of the lines is:
Abe Lincoln did not free the enslaved, Progress was made cause we forced the proclamation
Love that line because it is true. Everything we have is because we forced it to happen. And the idea that we are "worse off" is just factually incorrect when we compare ourselves today to our grandparents in the 1940s and our great grandparents before.
On politics, the two party system is ingrained in America from the beginning, there has never been a huge 3rd party influence in American politics, ever. So the idea that we "need" another party is false IMO as a 3rd party would primarily just draw votes from one of the two major parties and the other would win.
And politics in general is just a dirty business. I'll admit that I do trust most black politicians (who aren't crazy black inferiority leaning individuals) more than I do other public servants. However, black people are not immune to corruption of power and influence and politics does invade one's sense of self and make one bloviate in the mind into believing that what they want is more important than what the people want.
This thread is about the fact that we black people have different POVs and have diverse views on a variety of subjects. I think you'd agree with this. Because I know you'd agree with this, I think it would be beneficial of you to also think about the fact that just because you think that you know what is best from a poltical perspective, doesn't mean that all of us are in agreement with you or think that any specific black politician will do anything of value for us on the whole. I think it is interesting that many white who are conservatives and many black people who voted for Obama, for instance, try to claim he did "nothing for black people" due to the fact that I never thought he'd do anything significant for black people. I wonder why you all think he should have. I did and still do believe he is more trustworthy than his opponents on a variety of fronts (and more intelligent and has more class/higher standards) but to believe that he would do some inordinate amount of things for blacks because he's black, to me is just an idiotic idea. No black politician is going to save black people and especially not on the federal level.
On wealth - you have become too invested in what white mainstream media is telling you about your powerlessness as a black person. I'm black, my mom was a single teen mom high school drop out - my dad was an orphaned high school drop out. I have more wealth than the average white family. I had barriers based on race in my life primarily to do with housing (I was lead poisoned as a baby due to inadequate housing conditions - lead poisoning is much more likely to occur and effect black children than other demographics - I'll note this should be more pressing of a need to work on than reparations - our children's health) and luckily I was not permanently harmed by lead exposure. I also was abused as a child and endured a lot of difficult circumstances and situations prior to the age of 10.
Interestingly, I took great strength from the story of Frederick Douglass. I was a voracious reader and cannot remember a time when I could not read (I remember reading to my older brother, who couldn't read, when I was 3 and he 4 years old). I read Douglass' autobiographical narrative when I was around 8 or 9 when the worse of what I went through as a child occurred. His story was a huge inspiration to me and showed me that when it comes down to it, I am in control of my life. He was a slave, he had no parents, he was abused and used and thought of as a "thing." Yet he tricked kids into learning to read. He learned to write. He fought for his individual grievances personally via his fist and with his mind.
He took charge of his life and did what he felt he had to do to free himself and to assist his people. He didn't make excuses. He asked whites to leave us alone and let us develop ourselves and stop trying to devise plans to send us away or prevent us from participating in our emancipation in our own country. Again, he was an inspiration. His story introduced me to black history and since I was 8 or 9 I've been fascinated with our people. Our story is not one of dependence or the need of deliverance by government programs. It is one of activism and determination and realization of goals.
If you want to be wealthy, make a plan and get more wealth like I did. It was a goal. I set it. I did what I had to do (and did it legally) and achieved it. FWIW my study of the period prior to 1865 is one of the greatest inspiration to me. Too many black Americans are unaware of how involved black people were in politics in the past and how involved black people were in helping other black people. We have always been our saviors. Not government, not white people. My knowledge of this makes me not dwell on the "what ifs" of reparations. If there is a problem, especially in my personal life/community of which I am immensely powerful and in charge of (especially myself/my family) then I will make goals and achieve those goals. If you want wealth as a goal, get some wealth or encourage other black people to get wealth.
My ultimate favorite line of the song I mentioned above is:
Convinced my experiences were meant to be Helps me navigate as they validate their treachery
We were meant to be. My own personal issues as a child were meant to be. They help me navigate my life and I don't pay attention to the treacherous ideas and ideology of the masses of Americans.
Due to this, I don't have an overly pessimistic view of our people to agree to white media's predictions of us having "zero wealth." Mostly because I do not pay much attention to what white mainstream media says about our people. They mostly tell lies and I'm not one to routinely believe liars. They don't have a good track record on predictions of us. When I was a teen, I remember them saying that all of us would be worse off in the 21st century due to the "crack babies" ruining us. That never happened. Not sure why you'd believe the "zero wealth" thing would happen unless you honestly believe that our demographic, even with the evidence of our history, would not see a problem in regards to wealth accumulation and both attempt to and make strides toward achieving more wealth as a demographic.
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Of course even if they were black DOS, like Oprah
, we still shouldn't vote for them because they are black. When it comes to us, we need people who have a deep understanding of black life in this country. Who not only knows the history, but see the present day results of that history. I don't care if they are black or white, they need to understand the history and seek to correct it.