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Inconsistent ones aren't, but I just prefer to call them statists.
no principled person advocates for the "smallest amount" of theft or robbery.
and no matter how many times its been covered you still dont get it
Irwin Schiff was a principled guy. Look what happened to him.
I would say study or you are fired is clearly a threat and also clearly illegal.
The law doesn't say that. If this is part of the job duties, yes you must do it or be fired.
Quote:
What if the business owner was Muslim and and wanted his workers to study the koran and put out those little rugs to chant on. Would that also be no big deal to you?
Getting someone to "chant something" is radically different than just a study of a particular subject. I don't know how the law would view that. Creepy!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BagelLover
It's best to actually read the law, not just quote it.
Facts About Religious Discrimination.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion (or lack of religious belief) in hiring, firing, or any other terms and conditions of employment.
This doesn't address requiring an hours worth of bible study as a daily work task. If they were to fire that person over their personal religious convictions, or lack there of, then that would apply. OR if some employees were singled out for bible study, then you may be able to apply it. Again, READ it before posting to correct someone. It is a very clear, and specific law. people have their right to their own religious beliefs, requiring "a study" of any religion doesn't impeed that.
I quoted English law, in terms of the US, I would suggest that the freedoms enshrined in Article 1 of the constitution protect freedom of though and religion. See my previous posts.
It also should be noted that you are discriminating by forcing someone or indeed preventing them from choosing or adhering to their own religion, as you have a right to freedom of thought and religion.
"In a 1979 consultation on the issue, the United States Commission on Civil Rights defined religious discrimination in relation to the civil rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Whereas religious civil liberties, such as the right to hold or not to hold a religious belief, are essential for Freedom of Religion (in the United States secured by the First Amendment), religious discrimination occurs when someone is denied "the equal protection of the laws, equality of status under the law, equal treatment in the administration of justice, and equality of opportunity and access to employment, education, housing, public services and facilities, and public accommodation because of their exercise of their right to religious freedom"".
In other words access to employment has to be equal regardless of belief, and by putting such clauses in to a contract it therefore discriminates against those who might oppose bible lessons due to their own beliefs or indeed lack of beliefs.
For instance if I was a painter in the construction industry and my contract stated I had to attend a Mosque and go to Koran Study groups, I would state that this was unfair and discriminatory against non-muslims and there basic feedoms of thought and religion.
Another example would be if an employer forced me to attend Democrat or Republican political meetings against my will and against my political beliefs.
Just because some employer has contracts stating this or that does not make them legal, and the fired worker has clearly sought legal advice on the issue, hence the upcoming court case.
Last edited by Brave New World; 09-03-2018 at 09:04 AM..
Inconsistent ones aren't, but I just prefer to call them statists.
no principled person advocates for the "smallest amount" of theft or robbery.
and no matter how many times its been covered you still dont get it
Libertarians support the Constitution. There are aspects that have to be paid for. I don't get it because you are incorrect.
The law doesn't say that. If this is part of the job duties, yes you must do it or be fired.
You obviously don't understand the law. You can't make religious attendance as part of ones job duties and fire them if they do not follow along. I already showed what federal law says. Its pretty cut and dry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BagelLover
Getting someone to "chant something" is radically different than just a study of a particular subject. I don't know how the law would view that. Creepy!
That is how they pray I believe. Like when christians bow their heads in prayer. I did not say that they would make them chant only that the rugs were there if they wanted to.
So what if they just had to study the koran with a muslim cleric leading the way. Is that fine with you?
I quoted English law, in terms of the US, I would suggest that the freedoms enshrined in Article 1 of the constitution protect freedom of though and religion. See my previous posts.
It also should be noted that you are discriminating by forcing someone or indeed preventing them from choosing or adhering to their own religion, as you have a right to freedom of thought and religion.
Again, it's best you understand and read what you are quoting. Also your second comment has been addressed already here //www.city-data.com/forum/52982974-post315.html.
Don't just quote something then try to slide it in as saying something it doesn't. I
addressed every point, all three, in what you quoted to correct you. You are still off track.
Again, it was a VERY Specific law so easy to address each and every point of that law. Go back and read.
Quote:
"In a 1979 consultation on the issue, the United States Commission on Civil Rights defined religious discrimination in relation to the civil rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. Whereas religious civil liberties, such as 1. the right to hold or not to hold a religious belief, are essential for Freedom of Religion (in the United States secured by the First Amendment), religious discrimination occurs when someone is denied "the equal protection of the laws, equality of status under the law, equal treatment in the administration of justice, and equality of opportunity and access to employment, education, housing, public services and facilities, and public accommodation because of their exercise of their right to religious freedom"".
Again and Again, i have broken down your law here in relation to what is occuring at the business.
It is a study of a religion. It isn't denying the employee the right to religious freedom. This particular story is about someone who is asked to attend a bible study only, as part of his daily work duties. This employee is denied NOTHING, and as far as we know from the posts, not singled out in any way over other employees.
[quote In other words access to employment has to be equal regardless of belief, and by putting such clauses in to a contract it therefore discriminates against those who might oppose bible lessons due to their own beliefs or indeed lack of beliefs.[/quote] No this is where you are WRONG. A study of something doesn't equate to agreeing with that subject. You are falsely confounding the two which makes no sense. We'd have no knowledge of anything in the world if we didn't study it.
Quote:
For instance if I was a painter in the construction industry and my contract stated I had to attend a Mosque and go to Koran Study groups, I would state that this was unfair and discriminatory against non-muslims and there basic feedoms of thought and religion.
A required study of a
particular topic, whether it be a religion or not, doesn't discriminate against non-muslims or their freedom of religion. That is impossible. Why are you saying such nonsense? How do they loose their particular religious beliefs by studying another religion? That means we all loose our faith because we obtain knowledge upon someone elses faith? you make no sense, literally.
Unless they are the only races (non-muslims) forced to attend that study, and they are all of the same rank, then that would be discriminatory. I learned that from reading what YOU posted about employment law. And it makes perfect sense.
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