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Old 09-05-2018, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
2,691 posts, read 1,668,069 times
Reputation: 3135

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Trying to negotiate with Hamas is like banging your head against a brick wall.


We have enough problems her in USA. Since the times of Jimmy Carter we have been negotiating in that region. Even the peace of Israel with Egypt is fragile.


Let them deal with it on their own.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,315 posts, read 26,217,746 times
Reputation: 15647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
The US can't be unbiased. The award for that goes first directly to Jimmy Carter for penning the US into the Treaty between Israel and Egypt and the second award goes to Bill Clinton who penned the US into the Treaty with Israel and Jordan.
Both of those were decades ago, our latest actions were extremist and at odds with the world. The last two actions that were recommended by Kushner put us on the outside, why is he even dictating policy.


But I agree the Egyptian-Israeli peace agreement was one for the history books and I give the leaders of both countries credit as much as Carter.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: New Jersey (Europe Sep ‘19)
1,261 posts, read 567,868 times
Reputation: 634
Neither countries are Christian majority, so who cares.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:47 PM
 
Location: The 719
18,022 posts, read 27,468,060 times
Reputation: 17349
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
The US has taken sides, $ millions in aid to Palestine but $ billions in aid to Israel.
And Trump is not mediating - and not backing out - he has taken sides and his policy is screw Palestine and help Israel take over the West Bank.
Yup.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:53 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
Jesus to you even read what you write?

The USA has been so blatantly pro Israel for the last 60 years that no one takes the USA seriously in regard to Israel. Trump didn't do that. He may be continuing the practice, but he certainly didn't start it or continue it for over 6 decades.

The US doesn't need to do squat. The UN might, Israel and Palestine absolutely do, but last time I checked Israel is not a US state, territory or protectorate.

What the USA needs to do is end foreign aid to Israel, Egypt,and Palestine. Jordan is the only country in that general area that is trying to make a difference.
The US has only been blatantly pro-Israel only since the 1970's. They saw Israel to have a value for the US to get a foothold in the Middle East. Hence the Treaties that places Israel, Egypt and Jordan under it's wings. The UN? Worthless.

Israel, Egypt and Jordan are not funded by USAID. Their checks are directly connected to the Treaties that the US penned itself to be part of. As long as those Treaties are in place and all participants are getting their parts then forget about ever making those funds go away.

And as to to Jordan, they are only giving lip service. They want no common border with any future Palestinian State.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:07 PM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Both of those were decades ago, our latest actions were extremist and at odds with the world. The last two actions that were recommended by Kushner put us on the outside, why is he even dictating policy.


But I agree the Egyptian-Israeli peace agreement was one for the history books and I give the leaders of both countries credit as much as Carter.
Doesn't matter if the actions are decades old, they are still in play. Every administration has tried different variations to resolve a issue that is not resolvable by any outside force. Carter in one year actually gave more funds to Israel than any other sitting POTUS (1980, $5.1B) which was followed by Clinton (2000, $4.1B).

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...l-1949-present
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Old 09-06-2018, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,315 posts, read 26,217,746 times
Reputation: 15647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Doesn't matter if the actions are decades old, they are still in play. Every administration has tried different variations to resolve a issue that is not resolvable by any outside force. Carter in one year actually gave more funds to Israel than any other sitting POTUS (1980, $5.1B) which was followed by Clinton (2000, $4.1B).

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...l-1949-present

We have always given aid to Israel but the actions by this administration against Palestine put us on a different level. Every prior administration has been critical of Israel's actions while this administration is silent.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:39 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,707 posts, read 30,753,834 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
We have always given aid to Israel but the actions by this administration against Palestine put us on a different level. Every prior administration has been critical of Israel's actions while this administration is silent.
The Trump administration is extremely different than any past administration do to the mere fact Trump has no fear in what he's doing as he has no political aspirations past being the POTUS. He scares both sides of the aisle. What he's doing is not against Palestinians, it's an attempt to push the Palestinian Authority towards the table in order for them to talk to the Israeli Administration w/o any preconditions to do so. Arafat came so close to cutting a deal with Israel that IMHO the PLO killed him for doing so. Abbas has done nothing since Arafat's death except to widen the rift with Israel.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:09 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
I work in Defense and have worked on programs that jointly benefit US/Israel. The programs are a net gain for both countries and when and if we get into a shooting war we will be at an advantage against any of of our enemies.

Mankind has never been peaceful, as evidenced by our never ending history of wars. Until our advesaries magically become peace loving I see no benefit of giving up our technology advancing relationships with Israel and other countries.
Does the "net gain" include the 4+ trillion that the current wars will end up costing us....or the tens of thousands of coalition troops gravely injured.

That's MY money. And, please, don't tell us all the ME conflicts have nothing to do with Israel. They play us like a fiddle....and, of course, many here want to be played since there is a lot of money in it.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:17 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
. Arafat came so close to cutting a deal with Israel that IMHO the PLO killed him for doing so. Abbas has done nothing since Arafat's death except to widen the rift with Israel.
It is generally accepted that the Israelis killed Arafat and they also have MUCH more favorable feelings toward Abbas...or at least they did at the time.

They didn't..and don't....think much of Arafat.

"Israel attempted to assassinate Arafat on a number of occasions"

"The Israeli government had tried for decades to assassinate Arafat, including attempting to intercept and to shoot down private aircraft and commercial airliners on which he was believed to be traveling."

"the Swiss forensic team had found levels of polonium in Arafat's ribs and pelvis 18 to 36 times the average."
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