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Old 09-07-2018, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,807 posts, read 11,100,681 times
Reputation: 7996

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
Im fine with Pro choice and Gay marriage. If the Republicans were ok with those and were actually Fiscal conservatives I would vote republican forever. Dems these days are indistinguishable from Communist.
This
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Old 09-07-2018, 11:49 PM
 
31,949 posts, read 14,955,784 times
Reputation: 13591
Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
It’s really not. Being gay is not at all the same as aborting a fetus. One you probably can’t help, and the other is a choice.
I’m talking about people being shamed. No one should shame anyone
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:07 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,562,458 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
That may be, but the government may only be interested in regulating it, as they do most everything else.
Effects of Abortion on the U.S. Population
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
So let me get this straight. This "experiment" is designed to force an increase in the population of red states? Do we have to pay for them? Because this idea of forcing an increase in unplanned children born to parents who had too many barriers to get an abortion means they are basically an experiment similar to the populations of Appalachia. 10% of West Virginia is on Disability and the top five states on Disability are West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, Mississippi and Alabama. If this is somehow viewed as a way to increase the white population, that is not what will happen, all populations will increase.

So...wow, so the Republican position is to oppose the immigration of suffering immigrants because they are too much of a burden on our economy - then force the birth of poverty stricken children born within our own borders.


I would like to see this discussed at a future presidential debate.
So would I ...
Quote:
This "experiment" is designed to force an increase in the population of red states?

So...wow, so the Republican position is to oppose ...
Nothing in my post says republican and you have said something that is neither stated or implied by the article(s) I have presented in this post or the others ...

My point is specific in that the u.s. has a declining birth rate, which has been in decline for decades, but no one was paying attention. The government led propaganda in an effort (to make themselves richer in a capitalist economy) to control and reduce the growth in population, in this age now, has put the economy in a pickle. Our government (which means you and all who vote, by being misled or by conscience) did not account for the 76.4 million baby boomers, leaving the workforce and dying. Thus, leaving a void in birth replacement numbers in the area of a healthy workforce and in the area of tax paying citizens, so as to sustain in a long term, a healthy robust economy.

Prior to Roe, which is (1970s) stated in the article, there was a natural (experiment) occurrence that people tasked with observing and noting such things, noticed. A woman who had to travel a long distance, more times opted to keep the baby, rather than abort. (there are no donkeys, no elephants, no blue or red, states) imo, the government will not over turn the roe v wade settled law, but will attempt at regulation instead.
another exert from the link (effects of abortion on u.s. population) above:
Quote:
Had abortion not been legalized, approximately a third of aborted children would be present today.

3. Economic Impact of Abortion

Eliminating a population through abortion destroys a population that will work and pay taxes. Legalizing abortion imposes a loss of between $70 billion and $135 billion of economic activity (valued work), and between $10 billion and $33 billion in annual tax revenue.
A resource to help stabilize a reduced workforce is immigration. I found a paper written about the UK, in 2009, that addresses immigration in an economy with an aging workforce.

Declining birth rate in Developed Countries: A radical policy re-think is required
Quote:
Although recent data show that birth rates in the UK have increased (Office of National Statistics, 2009), this is predominantly due to immigration so there are still serious concerns about long term replacement. There are two potential means of addressing the problem of providing a young productive workforce able to generate income to provide the social care for the old and infirm. The first is to find ways of increasing the birth rate; this is essentially a long term solution but one which should provide more steady and predictable results. The second is to encourage immigration of a predominantly young and skilled workforce; this may provide an instant answer to the problem but is likely to be short-term unless the immigrants decide to stay in large numbers. In the long term it is doubtful whether reliance should be placed on immigration to solve an intrinsic societal problem in developed nations, namely a falling birth rate.
So while allowing an increase in migration into a country is great for a short term fix, in the over all scheme of things, it does nothing to solve the problem over a long term period. And this is something that is a global situation. The u.s. is not alone as it wasn't alone when we faced the Great Depression, 80 years ago, or the boom in birth rates. Russia is also back peddling their abortion laws as their population is shrinking by almost 700,000 annually.

So now you have a question on who is going to pay for unplanned pregnancies? One, abortion is not going away. Two, in a robust (w/stabling employment rates) economy ... people who normally have babies, tend to keep them, as well.
Quote:
If this is somehow viewed as a way to increase the white population, that is not what will happen, all populations will increase.
I should hope so ... however, there is an indication that the white population may not bounce back. Which in a global warming climate, I have a theory, where as all things evolve over time.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:20 AM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,668,264 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
So now you have a question on who is going to pay for unplanned pregnancies? One, abortion is not going away. Two, in a robust (w/stabling employment rates) economy ... people who normally have babies, tend to keep them, as well.
I should hope so ... however, there is an indication that the white population may not bounce back. Which in a global warming climate, I have a theory, where as all things evolve over time.
Abortion will not go away for the most affluent. What will result is an increase in the childbirth rate for those that are most poor. This is why I'm always amazed that the same Republicans that so oppose abortion are also the same Republicans who angrily resent increased social costs.

As for global warming and the white population not bouncing back, we all started in Africa with dark skin so anything is possible.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:32 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,562,458 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Abortion will not go away for the most affluent. What will result is an increase in the childbirth rate for those that are most poor. This is why I'm always amazed that the same Republicans that so oppose abortion are also the same Republicans who angrily resent increased social costs.

As for global warming and the white population not bouncing back, we all started in Africa with dark skin so anything is possible.
Quote:
What will result is an increase in the childbirth rate for those that are most poor.
That may be but as I said in another post ... How many success stories began ... ? I was born with a silver spoon and all the advantages. They most generally begin ... I had a chit head for a father, or raised in a group home I learned, or ... as I just heard not but a few hours ago, born on the poor side of Chicago, but he didn't let that keep him down. The young man began an engineering firm in his 20's.

So what is the problem with poor people having babies? Tax dollars ? and those kids grow up and many go on to do what?

And two that is an argument that is over money that isn't even the people's money to keep or even to delegate. How is it the government can get people to fight over that is way beyond me. Just saying ...


PS: Nature, not government, fixes all things over time and manipulating it, only increases not decreases problems.
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Old 09-08-2018, 01:32 AM
 
21,422 posts, read 10,507,691 times
Reputation: 14079
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
I’m talking about people being shamed. No one should shame anyone
I agree. Just pointing out that these two issues get lumped together but they shouldn’t be. While I don’t think abortion should be outlawed, I understand the motivation behind the opposition to it. But gay marriage isn’t harming anyone. It’s just letting people be who they are, and giving them the benefits they deserve. We can’t deny people those benefits just because of who they love.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:14 AM
 
41,111 posts, read 25,662,614 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapa1 View Post
I am really concerned that our country is going in the wrong direction. Can you imagine how many lives will be destroyed if such things were to be overturned?
I don't like the idea of abortion, especially late term but do see your point but it won't be overturned.

OP your falling for the typical fear mongering and drama.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,119 posts, read 5,561,115 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
No, they are law of the land and every poll indicates that the the majority of Americans are ok with both. I would actually join the Republican party if they were ok with RVR.
Totalitarian regimes have no respect for a majority. If Trump has a puppet majority in the Supreme Court to carry out his orders, that's what this country will become.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:43 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,180,034 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapa1 View Post
I am really concerned that our country is going in the wrong direction. Can you imagine how many lives will be destroyed if such things were to be overturned?
Just be glad I am not in charge.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,625 posts, read 26,307,471 times
Reputation: 12635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapa1 View Post
I am really concerned that our country is going in the wrong direction. Can you imagine how many lives will be destroyed if such things were to be overturned?

Let's not kid ourselves about abortion and same-sex marriage.

Both are the product of a judicial end-around.

The people had already spoken in the states on the issue of abortion and same-sex marriage before being overruled by a Supreme Court that has assumed legislative powers reserved by the Constitution to the Congress.

Now that the power balance on the court is shifting, you're suddenly concerned.

Well, I've always been concerned that the state will assume the authority to decide not only what a marriage is, but also what a person is.

Never mind that this is the same government body that decided black slaves were not fully human and could never be citizens of the United States.
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