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Old 09-09-2018, 08:32 PM
 
33,999 posts, read 17,030,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
OK, you are not living in the real world though. e.
I am, and the difference in results is largely from differences in choices.

Winners do not have kids at 15, they do not commit crimes, they do not do drugs all the time. They educate themselves, stay out of trouble, and learn how to become fully functioning adults.

In NYC's poorer neighborhoods, I see those who went for instant gratification every day, living on the streets by 30. Or on the dole via social welfare for life. Just as their kids will be-since they have putrid role models.

Personal choices are critical from a very early age. We all have those choices.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:33 PM
 
33,999 posts, read 17,030,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgirlinnc View Post
Or, a person could CHOOSE not to drink excessively, do drugs, drop out of school, rob/kill/deal drugs, have sex as a 16 year old, etc.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:35 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,954,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
But the US has a public safety net. The real problem is working class people have limited opportunities, not because of a lacking social safety net but because of so much immigration, foreign workers and trade deficits.
The US public safety net is appalling. And labor rights are the worst in the developed world by a wide margin. Particularly bad is the horrific access to proper health care. Working class people need labor unions, a higher minimum wage, regulation of Wall Street, proper anti-trust enforcement and getting big money out of politics so the working man and woman can be heard and not drowned out by big money interests.

Supporting destruction of unions, massive inequality and oligarchy means supporting drudgery jobs in America, which is a gift to irresponsible employers and unskilled third world immigration.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:36 PM
 
Location: In a George Strait Song
9,546 posts, read 7,064,515 times
Reputation: 14046
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I am, and the difference in results is largely from differences in choices.

Winners do not have kids at 15, they do not commit crimes, they do not do drugs all the time. They educate themselves, stay out of trouble, and learn how to become fully functioning adults.

In NYC's poorer neighborhoods, I see those who went for instant gratification every day, living on the streets by 30. Or on the dole via social welfare for life. Just as their kids will be-since they have putrid role models.

Personal choices are critical from a very early age. We all have those choices.
We are simpatico!

Yes, about instant gratification; I was going to mention that! We live in an "instant" culture, where the idea of working for something, working your way up, is undermined by celebrities and social media.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:38 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,954,406 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I am, and the difference in results is largely from differences in choices.

Winners do not have kids at 15, they do not commit crimes, they do not do drugs all the time. They educate themselves, stay out of trouble, and learn how to become fully functioning adults.

In NYC's poorer neighborhoods, I see those who went for instant gratification every day, living on the streets by 30. Or on the dole via social welfare for life. Just as their kids will be-since they have putrid role models.

Personal choices are critical from a very early age. We all have those choices.
You'd say the same if you were living in the Congo or medieval Europe. Moralization is just another way of saying you dont want change. You want more of the same. You are not interested in finding solutions. So instead we deliberately waste the potential of so many of our citizens because we dont provide a proper platform for people to succeed in life.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:38 PM
 
33,999 posts, read 17,030,256 times
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Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The US public safety net is appalling. .

Having skills, education, and training is the best safety net, coupled with our wonderful nation that has never had the persistent unemployment problems nations overspending on social welfare have had.

.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:40 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,865,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The US public safety net is appalling. And labor rights are the worst in the developed world by a wide margin. Particularly bad is the horrific access to proper health care. Working class people need labor unions, a higher minimum wage, regulation of Wall Street, proper anti-trust enforcement and getting big money out of politics so the working man and woman can be heard and not drowned out by big money interests.

Supporting destruction of unions, massive inequality and oligarchy means supporting drudgery jobs in America, which is a gift to irresponsible employers and unskilled third world immigration.
But they're not going to get any of that through the political system. They might through the market system of supply and demand, if the working class was not flooded with immigrants and foreign workers.

And as I mentioned earlier consumers have a big influence. If you want a union job then don't buy a non-UAW made car for instance.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:41 PM
 
33,999 posts, read 17,030,256 times
Reputation: 17186
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
You'd say the same if you were living in the Congo or medieval Europe. Moralization is just another way of saying you dont want change. You want more of the same. You are not interested in finding solutions. So instead we deliberately waste the potential of so many of our citizens because we dont provide a proper platform for people to succeed in life.
We do not waste their potential. The kids and their parents often do waste it themselves.

Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing.

Not due to morality, but due to it logically resulting in the best outcomes.

Its not governments job to do what you and your family should do for yourself.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:41 PM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,586,979 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
How can one third of workers be making less than $12 an hour — something is wrong with that statistic.
You can’t even hire an illegal for any job in my state for less than $15 and most demand $20 I am told. Even teenagers on weekends won’t work for $12 anymore.
Do I live in a bubble?
Do the rest of you see lots of people working for less than $12 an hour?
yes ...

Who makes less than $15 per hour? An explainer in 3 charts
Quote:
It’s easy to assume that workers earning less than $15 is a small subset of the workforce. But, in fact, 42% of all workers in the United States fit this bill.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:41 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,954,406 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Having skills, education, and training is the best safety net, coupled with our wonderful nation that has never had the persistent unemployment problems nations overspending on social welfare have had.

.
Education is big business and increasingly unavailable for larger sections of society. An educated population is a threat to the ruling class. Thats why few politicians are interested in that. Unemployment? Thats a useless indicator. A person who gives up looking for work and cant collect unemployment benefits is not counted as unemployed. The share of people who is actually working in America is low compared to most other developed countries.
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