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Old 09-10-2018, 02:31 PM
 
19,441 posts, read 12,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
I vote for the interest of society as a whole. I am not in the position to need Medicaid or a legal abortion or a raised minimum wage, but I vote for those things. It is in my best interest to be surrounded by healthy people who can afford basic necessities. Maybe my taxes go up a small amount, but the benefits of those programs far outweigh the expense, IMO.

I do find it puzzling when people who have Medicaid or food stamps vote for candidates who would like to reduce those safety nets. I know one woman who is very against a raised minimum wage but will moan and groan about how the law partnership she works for pays her only $9/hour and it's barely worth her time. I guess I can see that she wants them to pay her more out of the goodness of their hearts and not because they are mandated to do so? I dunno. It seems to me that she's voting against her own best interest, but people are free to vote how they want to.
Well it used to be that way. People were valued for their work and loyalty. I don't know anyone in any job at a law firm making that little money even twenty years ago - they wanted to retain good employees so paid them well. Some businesses still operate this way but Walmartization and globalization of business and society has resulted in a disposability mentality and simply a lack of respect for people.

Increase the minimum wage by much and they will lay off people and force some other employees to do more work to make up for it, or go to automation where possible. They are so used to screwing people at the bottom, they are offended by the concept of paying them more even if they can afford it.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:35 PM
 
Location: California
37,083 posts, read 42,062,039 times
Reputation: 34924
I could. I don't want to but if there is a law that I think needs to exist, or needs to be changes/replaced/eliminated because it's ridiculous, I would vote for it even if I end up loosing a little bit of something along the way.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:24 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,141 posts, read 13,166,846 times
Reputation: 10111
Default Do you vote against your own interests?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I read all the time about people claiming others vote against their own interests. Never met anyone who claimed to do so.
As far as I am concerned, both of the main parties stink out loud. Both Democrats and Republicans have ideas that I can support but unfortunately with both comes tons of terrible baggage that makes no sense.

For instance, when I voted for Trump, I was looking for someone who would FINALLY address the problems with free trade, especially with Asia and most especially with China. I was also looking for someone who really took the issue of illegal aliens seriously and not just talk during the election like a Bush or a Clinton.

However, I did not vote for Trump so he could start a trade war with the entire world at the same time, even with our Allies. I don't care about your negotiating skills, that is just bad strategy. Nor did I vote to remove so many environmental or labor regulations. Nor a permanent tax cut for corporations and just a temporary tax cut for workers.

I am actually pretty disgusted with the Republicans right now. The only reason I will probably vote Republican in November, is that the Democrats have managed the incredible achievement of being even worse.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,002 posts, read 18,838,886 times
Reputation: 25947
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I read all the time about people claiming others vote against their own interests. Never met anyone who claimed to do so.
I vote for what I consider to be the best interest of the nation. If I suffer some problem personally in order to benefit the nation, I'm fine with it.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:34 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,884,536 times
Reputation: 18149
Every time you vote, you are voting against your own interests.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:35 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,608,335 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I do vote for candidates who are supportive of sanctuary cities which is absurd, and not in my interest, but it is not anywhere near as important as the massive corruption and war against the working class that has been ongoing for decades now, so voting against corrupt candidates and voting for pro-worker candidates who dont take corporate money and push for stronger labor rights and a national health care system is far more important.
oh dear, PCAL, you fell for the right wing propaganda ref "sanctuary cities" that is kind of sad....

Those cities don't hinder ICE or any other group from doing their jobs, they merely don't assist them. And the reason they don't assist is because Trump and his enablers are using ICE to egregiously target brown people . There is zero increase in illegals from northern Europe, in fact they have been turning a blind eye to them for the last half century.....

Trump is being a complete dick about it, there is literally no need to be such a scum bag about it....
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
36,968 posts, read 18,939,924 times
Reputation: 14775
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
What is this massive corruption and war against the working class?

It started with Ronald Reagan.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:48 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,917,792 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
oh dear, PCAL, you fell for the right wing propaganda ref "sanctuary cities" that is kind of sad....

Those cities don't hinder ICE or any other group from doing their jobs, they merely don't assist them. And the reason they don't assist is because Trump and his enablers are using ICE to egregiously target brown people . There is zero increase in illegals from northern Europe, in fact they have been turning a blind eye to them for the last half century.....

Trump is being a complete dick about it, there is literally no need to be such a scum bag about it....
not really, the sanctuary cities has nothing to do with Trump. They were in place before the scam artist became president. Anyway, illegal immigration is not in the interest of the working class, but the issue is exaggerated by the right wing so not a big deal. There are no "open borders" and immigration to America is low.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:50 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,115,938 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
I read all the time about people claiming others vote against their own interests. Never met anyone who claimed to do so.
In general, I'm sure you must have noticed that most people aren't so quick to declare when they do something stupid.

And most people who vote against their own interests are pretty stupid - either too lazy to pay attention, or too gullible to understand they're been conned.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:59 PM
 
Location: moved
13,589 posts, read 9,624,976 times
Reputation: 23363
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
... I know one woman who is very against a raised minimum wage but will moan and groan about how the law partnership she works for pays her only $9/hour and it's barely worth her time. I guess I can see that she wants them to pay her more out of the goodness of their hearts and not because they are mandated to do so? ...
This is a common view. If the bosses offer a higher wage “from the goodness of their hearts”, then the employee could rightfully claim that he/she earned the wage on his/her merits, which is to say, he/she deserves it. But if wages are raised by government mandate, then it sounds like a handout, or some parasitic benefit. The perception is, that even if the persons in question stand to gain, their gains is tainted, and therefore ought to be abjured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Why is that surprising? Most human beings are self delusional, it's how we get through the night. Mind you blind allegiance to any politician or political party always has some of that il-logic associated with it but for the Trump cult it is at a whole new level.

Trump has absolutely nothing to offer the people that voted for him. Nothing. Whatsoever.

Except for one very important thing - he makes them "feel good" about themselves. ...
Exactly! Like most people, I fancy myself being rational, dispassionate and analytical. The reality is rather less noble. I tend to vote for those candidates who appeal to me emotionally… through their rhetoric or something about their story with which I personally connect. And this “story” may be largely concocted; that is, an embellished narrative, otherwise known as propaganda.

However, with Trump, I am viscerally disgusted. His story is the antithesis of what I respect, or what appeals to me. So, even if there are occasions when his policies actually benefit me (I am after all primarily an investor, as opposed to a salaried worker), that does not compensate for the overarching distaste. And when his policies strike me as being foolish and hurtful (principally, trade tariffs), I’m quick to point out the negatives.

Along similar lines, I like politicians such as Angela Merkel (Germany), not because their policies have done anything good for me, but because I like their story and their speeches. Plus, my German is rather weak, but Angela speaks slowly, with a High German dialect that I can follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
A healthy economy is probably what is in everyone's best interests. But no politician can create a healthy economy.
But what constitutes "healthy"? For investors in the stock market, a healthy economy is one where corporate profits increase sprightly, and corporate tax rates are low. For wage-employees at the lower level, a healthy economy is one where there is less competition among unskilled employees, so that employers have to pay higher wages. We can all agree that a "healthy economy" is a good thing - but we can have diametrically opposing criteria for health.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
I don't vote for the chairman of the board of GE, or Goldman Sachs or Walmart or the Trump Organization. We don't have many areas of convergence.
I vote (by proxy) for board members of companies for which I have stock, but my holdings are too small to matter. Even if they did matter, the vote is generally up-down on a given candidate. There is no grass-roots effort to recruit candidates. Sometimes I myself think about trying to get onto the board, but of course that is ridiculous, because even if I sold everything and concentrated my entire portfolio on one company, it would still be too small to compete for a seat on the board.
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