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Old 09-11-2018, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I agree none of these are anarchist societies - they are coups and socialist societies.



I've heard of Christiana in Denmark and they are a socialist community and not anarchist....


It is actually weird that they would be included in this list just because they don't pay taxes. All the people in Christiana have access to social services in Denmark, especially socialized medicine, food and even free needles to use drugs.....
Oh, absolutely. Christiania is a great example on how you can run an alternative society based on non-coercive principles, commonly held property yadda yadda - as long as you are surrounded by a very tolerant functioning society to provide you with life's necessities.

Of course, once the biker gangs figured out that there were millions to be made on selling marijuana on a site where the dumb hippies did all they could to keep the police from ever going, they took over, rather ruthlessly.

And the less dumb of the dumb hippies have been working tirelessly to make sure that they're more equal than others. "This very attractive house is of course common property, but as a practical matter, not everyone can live in it, and it so happens there was a majority on the housing committee that voted my way. The tarpaper shacks are reasonably wind- and waterproof, so they should be fine for those who voted the wrong way. And they, too, are common property."
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Here, I think this link works better: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutu...conomic_theory)

Either way, you can see Proudhon was not fully on board with labor vouchers and monetization of capital.
Thanks, I edited the post and got the link to work now.
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,425,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Oh, absolutely. Christiania is a great example on how you can run an alternative society based on non-coercive principles, commonly held property yadda yadda - as long as you are surrounded by a very tolerant functioning society to provide you with life's necessities.

Of course, once the biker gangs figured out that there were millions to be made on selling marijuana on a site where the dumb hippies did all they could to keep the police from ever going, they took over, rather ruthlessly.

And the less dumb of the dumb hippies have been working tirelessly to make sure that they're more equal than others. "This very attractive house is of course common property, but as a practical matter, not everyone can live in it, and it so happens there was a majority on the housing committee that voted my way. The tarpaper shacks are reasonably wind- and waterproof, so they should be fine for those who voted the wrong way. And they, too, are common property."
Christiana was an anarcho-communist society. And just like there it worked everywhere it has been tried, even crime ridden Mexico (Zapatistas).

That is because mutual aid is human nature (Kropktin). Furthermore if you take away the profit motive, monetary reward won’t be a variable so organized crime will disappear. Regular crime as well.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Anarchism is a sub sect of libertarian socialist.
No they aren't.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I have, though maybe not directly to you.

Just read the wiki page if you want to know more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism
That is an unworkable theory. I've done this hundreds of times. When you add all these descriptives all you are doing is trying to move the goal posts.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Christiana was an anarcho-communist society. And just like there it worked everywhere it has been tried...
Yeah, right. They lived on the surrounding taxpayers' generosity, of course it "worked".
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But what is anarchism and what is libertarian socialism?

Did not the father of anarchism, Pierre Joseph Proudhon, call himself both anarchist and libertarian socialist?

This is what he advocated:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual...onomic_theory)
I'm not too interested in what he called himself.

I'm the Queen of England.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:11 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I’m not a mutualist (that is more Bakunin who was an anarchist collectivist).

But I am a libertarian socialist. Some support minimal Central power, I support none. But left wing anarchist are still libertarian socialists.
Libertarians and Socialists both support a central power. One just less than the other. You are just making crap up.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
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Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
No they aren't.
Yes, left wing anarchist are libertarian socialists: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Past and present political philosophies and movements commonly described as libertarian socialist include anarchism as well as autonomism, Communalism, participism, guild socialism,[27] revolutionary syndicalism, and libertarian Marxist[28] philosophies such as council communism[29] and Luxemburgism[30] as well as some versions of utopian socialism[31] and individualist anarchism.[32][33][34][35]

A surge of popular interest in libertarian socialism occurred in western nations during the 1960s and 1970s.[319] Anarchism was influential in the counterculture of the 1960s[320][321][322] and anarchists actively participated in the late 1960s students and workers revolts.[323] In 1968 in Carrara, Italy, the International of Anarchist Federations was founded during an international anarchist conference held there in 1968 by the three existing European federations of France, the Italian and the Iberian Anarchist Federation as well as the Bulgarian Anarchist Federation in French exile.[324][325]


This is a libertarian socialist paper: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anar...icalist_Review


There is even an entire section on the anarchist communist sect of libertarian socialism:

Anarcho-communism (also known as anarchist communism and occasionally as free communism) is a theory of anarchism which advocates the abolition of the state, markets, money, capitalism and private property (while retaining respect for personal property)[160] in favor of common ownership of the means of production,[161][162] direct democracy and a horizontal network of voluntary associations and workers' councils with production and consumption based on the guiding principle: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".[163][164]

Anarcho-communism developed out of radical socialist currents after the French Revolution,[30][108][165] but it was first formulated as such in the Italian section of the First International.[166] The theoretical work of Peter Kropotkin took importance later as it expanded and developed pro-organizationalist and insurrectionary anti-organizationalist sections.[167] Some forms of anarchist communism, such as insurrectionary anarchism, are strongly influenced by egoism and radical individualism, believing anarcho-communism is the best social system for the realization of individual freedom.[168][169][170][171] Most anarcho-communists view anarcho-communism as a way of reconciling the opposition between the individual and society.[172][173][174]

To date, the best known examples of an anarchist communist society (i.e. established around the ideas as they exist today and achieving worldwide attention and knowledge in the historical canon) are the anarchist territories during the Spanish Revolution[175] and the Free Territory during the Russian Revolution. Through the efforts and influence of the Spanish anarchists during the Spanish Revolution within the Spanish Civil War, starting in 1936 anarcho-communism existed in most of Aragon, parts of the Levante and Andalusia and in the stronghold of anarchist Catalonia before being crushed by the combined forces of Francoism, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Communist Party of Spain repression (backed by the Soviet Union) as well as economic and armaments blockades from the capitalist countries and the Spanish Republic itself.[176]

During the Russian Revolution, anarchists such as Nestor Makhno worked to create and defend—through the Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine—anarcho-communism in the Free Territory of the Ukraine from 1919 before being conquered by the Bolsheviks in 1921. Anarcho-communist currents include platformism and insurrectionary anarchism.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I'm not too interested in what he called himself.

I'm the Queen of England.
Do you deny that he was an anarchist and a libertarian socialist?
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