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Old 06-11-2008, 12:15 AM
 
69 posts, read 87,397 times
Reputation: 12

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Some links you may find of interest in regards to the science surrounding same-sex attraction and ex-gays.

Can You Change Your Sexual Orientation? (http://www.mygenes.co.nz/Ch12.pdf - broken link)

People Can Change

Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences (http://peoplecanchange.com/Root_Problems.htm - broken link)

I Do Exist I have this video and it really opens your eyes to the very real possibility of change.

New Evidence Found for Childhood Family Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation

Born or Bred? Science Does Not Support the Claim that Homosexuality is Genetic

The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds no Basis in Science


Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth An excerpt from Dr. Satinover's book.

Also,

President Koocher says the American Psychological Association has no disagreement with the treatment of unwanted homosexual attraction.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,282,339 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrip View Post
We are indeed redefining marriage based on behavior. Your comfort level apparently stops at same-sex marriage where some homosexual activists are pushing for more freedom (sex with animals).
Please do provide some sort of link to this. I'm intrigued by your assertion.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:42 AM
 
69 posts, read 87,397 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Please do provide some sort of link to this. I'm intrigued by your assertion.
I'm referring to homosexual activist Frank Kameny and those who agree with him in regards to sex with animals (bestiality). According to Kameny, he is (personally) opposed to bestiality but believes we should have the freedom to engage in bestiality. Kameny is in his 80s, quite intelligent and well known.

I first heard about his comments last week in the Baltimore Sun forums where I found this: 'Gay Rights' Icon Fran Kameny Says Bestiality Ok 'as long as the Animal Doesn't Mind' and have read where it's been discussed in various forms (Google link).

Point number 2 in the above says:
2. Bestiality is not “my thing.” I have never participated in it and have no expectation that I ever will. But it seems to be a harmless foible or idiosyncrasy of some people. So, as long as the animal doesn’t mind (and the animal rarely does) I don’t mind, and I don’t see why anyone else should. If bestiality with consenting animals provides happiness to some people, let them pursue their happiness. That is Americanism in action.

Please don't think I'm saying all homosexual activists or all homosexuals agree with Kameny. I would think a very small number of any group agree with Kameny, but this is yet another step in what I consider the wrong direction for our society to slip into.
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,352 posts, read 6,663,303 times
Reputation: 3590
For everyone who goes back to the "it's a choice" argument, just stop and think about one thing.

If you're straight, do you think it's possible that you can simply wake up tomorrow and choose to become attracted to someone of the same sex?

I don't care why someone might be attracted to the same sex. If they fall in love with someone of the same sex, why in the world should I tell them they can't make a spiritual and legal commitment to each other?

I think people just need to focus on their own marriages and relationships, rather than worry about what two other people choose to do. Making ALL marriages healthier and stronger will preserve the "sanctity" of marriage, not telling two people of the same sex what kind of commitment they can make to each other.

This nonsense about bestiality being next is just that -- nonsense. The debate is about letting consenting adults commit to each other, not taking advantage of a being that can't give its consent. It's wrong to suggest that gay people also advocate for things like bestiality and underage sex. The ones that do are in a small minority, and they're sick. Furthermore, there are just as many straight people who would advocate for the same things. And they're just as sick.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:26 AM
 
358 posts, read 518,452 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by trnmeon View Post
Even funnier is how biblical explanations of the age of the Earth, comical explanations of reproduction and animal species, and disproved or unsubstanciated "historical" occurances are irrelevant as well.

I mean, if you're going to use the bible to oppose and deny gays and lesbians equal rights, go ahead and teach kids that the story of Adam & Eve sufficiently and accurately describes the process by which homo sapiens arose.

Oh, and that the sun revolves around the Earth.

the bible says that god made the planet earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. what makes you think that one of gods days is the same as one of ours. for all we know, one of gods days maybe 300 million years. would that be closer to scientists estimation of how old the planet is?
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,228,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrip View Post
Thanks. I've been studying this issue for years and have quite an extensive database on the subject.
That's just creepy. Why would you do that? Are you denying your true self? Time and time again we see those who protest against gay people the loudest are themselves, actually gay. Gay and afraid, filled with self hatred, brainwashed by religion.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:32 PM
 
Location: los angeles
5,032 posts, read 12,610,547 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
That's just creepy. Why would you do that? Are you denying your true self? Time and time again we see those who protest against gay people the loudest are themselves, actually gay. Gay and afraid, filled with self hatred, brainwashed by religion.
Quite true. The very people to bash gays are struggling with self-loathing and sexual confusion. Dangerous & unpredictable people, I'm afraid.

Anyone who claims to be studying homosexuality for "years" and yet comes to the baseless conclusions that scripy has is strongly suspect of being dishonest and/or mentally unstable.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:52 PM
 
69 posts, read 87,397 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoAdrian View Post
For everyone who goes back to the "it's a choice" argument, just stop and think about one thing.

If you're straight, do you think it's possible that you can simply wake up tomorrow and choose to become attracted to someone of the same sex?
It's quite complicated. For me, I don't believe homosexuals choose their same-sex attraction and neither do I believe they are born with their same-sex attraction. As study after study has demonstrated, environment plays a role. Although there is a group who admit to choosing to be gay here: Gay By Choice. Their website uses a different word for gay but the filters here block that word.

Quote:
If they fall in love with someone of the same sex, why in the world should I tell them they can't make a spiritual and legal commitment to each other?
They can do that now without calling it marriage.

Quote:
This nonsense about bestiality being next is just that -- nonsense.
I believe we'd agree that those who want the freedom to engage in bestiality are sick and a small minority of any group. I'm not so sure it's nonsense in the sense of what's coming next. While I don't think it's absolutely next, it's probably coming but only after some other social changes occur.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,228,265 times
Reputation: 10428
I've never in my life met or heard of anyone who was into beastiality, not that they would advertise the fact. Personally I think it's just a ridiculous slippery-slope argument used by anti-gay people.

Oh, I forgot about the "donkey shows" in Mexico. But then that's heterosexual beastiality. Still never heard about a woman wanting to marry a donkey though.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:05 PM
 
69 posts, read 87,397 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Are you denying your true self? Time and time again we see those who protest against gay people the loudest are themselves, actually gay.
Did you know your statement above probably originated from Kirk and Madsen's book After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the
90s?


What Kirk and Madsen wrote was to vilify those who disagree with them. They call it jamming. While I've definitely read of some very out-spoken opponents of homosexuals who turned out to be masking their own homosexuality, those are a very small minority.

Quote:
Gay and afraid, filled with self hatred, brainwashed by religion.
That certainly doesn't describe anybody I know.
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