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Old 06-12-2008, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,164,745 times
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I'm bettin' 9 chances out of 10 Scripp is a closet case who can't seem to accept himself for who he really is. Still no answer to my questions, I see.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:35 AM
 
69 posts, read 87,314 times
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Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I'm bettin' 9 chances out of 10 Scripp is a closet case who can't seem to accept himself for who he really is. Still no answer to my questions, I see.
Sigh. Since you're gay, it's really sad you're not interested in reading studies or references from gay scientists.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,164,745 times
Reputation: 10428
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Originally Posted by scrip View Post
Sigh. Since you're gay, it's really sad you're not interested in reading studies or references from gay scientists.
Wow, you really are a one tune show! Still won't answer my questions, I see. Sometimes silence is an actual answer.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,164,745 times
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Originally Posted by scrip View Post
Sigh. Since you're gay, it's really sad you're not interested in reading studies or references from gay scientists.
Your links all come from groups who are not unbiased. People like "Concerned Women for America" are anti gay to start with, so it's laughable to think they're not going to find "scientists" or "experts" who don't support their anti-gay point of view.

Plus, I have absolutely no desire to try and find information to convince myself that being gay is something that can be changed when I know, for me, it can't be. And then there's the fact that I'm happy in my relationship, happy with our family, and comfortable with who I am. I don't beleive the BS from the religious right, nor do I believe I'm an abomination or hell-bound.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Southern New Jersey
1,725 posts, read 3,111,215 times
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Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I think there's a bit of a dividing line here in what we should consider "gay genetics" and "gay psychology".

I think that we first have to understand what constitutes "homosexuality".

For the most part, it seems that those from the religious standpoint usually end up quoting something to the effect of "a man shall not lie with a man as he does a woman". Well, to me, that actually describes homosexual behavior and not necessarily homosexuality. But, this, to me, begs the question, how else would homosexuals "lie" with one another? They are obviously not going to sleep with one another in the same fashion that heterosexual couples do for obvious reasons. So, due to the anatomy of two males and/or two females we are left with no other choice but to deem certain things "homosexual" in their act. But, does that really define homosexuality?

What this does tell me is that there is a primal urge (sex drive) in males and females heterosexual and homosexual alike that needs to be fulfilled separately from the actual conditions provided by ones sexual orientation. In other words, gay men and women have just as much sex drive as straight men and women but the actions in which they pursue it are different - resulting in homosexual "behavior".

But, should this mean that the "behavior" is what defines the individual? If, hypothetically, I as a straight man slept with a homosexual male would it in return make me homosexual? It may make people think that I was but in all reality it would be a choice that I made whether due to pleasure, testing it out, or some other reason. However, I fail to see how it would make me homosexual.

Therefore, I think that we take it a step to far when we define homosexual "behavior" as the process behind what makes up a homosexual or heterosexual. Rather, it seems to me that what should actually be defined are how, what, and who a person really feels emotional towards. I imagine from a gay man's perspective that his feelings of love, emotion, and attraction are no different towards his partner than mine are to my wife.

And yet it seems that I remember for as long as I can that there was some sort of "attraction" to young women (when I was young - NOT NOW ). I fail to see how at the age of five years old when I thought a fellow female classmate in kindergarden was "cute" was a result of my lifes experiences. Considering that I can only remember back to my third birthday it would tell me that there was little to no influence in how it was that my mind adapted to the conception of finding young women attractive. But why is the double standard attached to those who are homosexual in nature? Is it so far fetched to imagine that the same feelings, the emotional ambivalence if you will, that I felt for young ladies at a very young age can also be felt by homosexual boys towards other boys? Why is that so hard to fathom? And yet, because of strictly anatomical and biological reasons, the only way to relieve the primal urge of sexual drive is in an entirely different way.

The problem is that people have a hard time separating "acts and behavior" from emotional ambivalence. While I do think that there are certain people who decide to engage in homosexual behavior just for pleasure, I do not think that makes them "gay". "Gay" is a product of not only behavior and acts but also the comprisal of how one feels towards a member of the same or opposite sex.

This leads me to an interesting conclusion in a study done in fruit flies (drosophila melanogaster) in which they "switched" certain genes off and on in offspring. What resulted was the fruit flies engaging in "homosexual behavior" but I also hardly think that the fruit fly felt this compassion for his mate. Rather, due to a "switch" in the genome of the fruit fly, the primal urges of the mind were redirected towards the fruit flies of the same sex. If that is indeed the case, then while I find it possible for the human being to avoid sexual contact or even lust after a member of the same sex, I think they would be doing so at an extreme risk to their own mental health for not "being true" to themselves.

In all honesty, people need to get their head out of the sandbox and realize that "behavior and acts" do not strictly define homosexuality as much as emotional ambivalence driving primal urges resulting in homosexual behavior do. And that, my friends, I find to be a result of pure genetics!
Great post, perhaps that's why homosexuality is a mental disorder...
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:38 AM
 
69 posts, read 87,314 times
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Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Wow, you really are a one tune show! Still won't answer my questions, I see. Sometimes silence is an actual answer.
Yes, it's too bad for you I'm familiar with Kirk and Madsen's jamming of those with whom you disagree. It's too bad for you that I'm sticking to the issue while you're doing everything you can to distract from the issue.

I can agree to disagree with you but you apparently won't even read what gay scientists have said.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:42 AM
 
69 posts, read 87,314 times
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Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Your links all come from groups who are not unbiased.
I've quoted and given references to many difference sources, some of which were direct quotes from gay scientists.

Quote:
Plus, I have absolutely no desire to try and find information to convince myself that being gay is something that can be changed when I know, for me, it can't be.
Then don't worry about it. Do you deny other homosexuals the right to seek help with unwanted same-sex attraction?
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
408 posts, read 695,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrip View Post
I've quoted and given references to many difference sources, some of which were direct quotes from gay scientists.
Question...these 'gay scientist', is them being gay common knowledge? Or did they just come out and say they are gay? I guess I am saying how do you know that they are in fact gay?
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:54 AM
 
69 posts, read 87,314 times
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Originally Posted by MamaShay87 View Post
Question...these 'gay scientist', is them being gay common knowledge? Or did they just come out and say they are gay? I guess I am saying how do you know that they are in fact gay?
Since there is no test we can run to determine whether somebody is gay or not, the only available evidence is their admission to being gay. Simon LeVay and Dean Hamer are both well known scientists who also happen to be gay and they are on record stating they are gay.
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Old 06-12-2008, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
408 posts, read 695,294 times
Reputation: 102
I wasn't talking about running tests, I just wanted to know how people knew they were gay, there are other ways to find out besides them just straight up telling you. Hmmm
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